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General Forum What makes us different?    Peppery One Papriko      6/13/2013  1 Hey there! I just had a strange thought on IRC which I just had to write down. I was thinking about Creatures, the community and the devs in particular. In the last time we got really epic stuff, I mean, look at the Garden Box for example. It's just pure epicness! But there was one little thing I was wondering about... Why didn't someone come up with it a long time ago? How long is C3/DS out now? 10 years? Almost 15? CAOS got never updated since then. The games got published and that's it. So why didn't the people back then already make so amazing stuff? Yes, there were some cool things and all, but nothing like the GB or some other examples I just can't think of in this second. To come to the topics title: what makes us so differnt? Are we more creative or maybe more intelligent? I doubt. The people back then were pretty bright too and had awesome ideas. The resources (CAOS and the S16/C16 formats) are now exactly the same as back then. Why are they used so differently now? What do you folks think? Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...   Spykkie   6/13/2013  2 In a lot of cases, people have had ideas floating in the back of their skulls for a long time, but didn't have the means to make them happen. This community is welcoming and supportive, so what ever you lack to achieve something great can either be found in partnership or thought to you by more experience persons in that field. What makes us different: We're supportive of each other. It's worth noting that a lot of people 'here' are from 'back then' too, only more experienced. Man, I remember when i was still a kid playing C1. I got so tired of my norns getting stung by bees that i figured out how to modify the bee sprite to give them red eyes and fangs. Didn't help, but it had me laughing every time i saw them. Twitt Stuff Insta Arts   Ilaezha   6/13/2013 I agree with Spykkie because I think it's mostly that the community's grown so much since "back then." That we feed off each other's ideas is another awesome thing about the active community. Ever from the start of being active in the community, especially here on CCaves, I've been inspired by the people here and how supportive and friendly everyone is to people and their ideas. Nice topic, Papriko.   TheSecond     6/13/2013  2 I put the blame squarely on CAOS itself. It's a cryptic mess, mostly undocumented, with poorly implemented variable naming, no way to define functions (SUBR's are useless except in the script block where they are defined), no way to use tokens in script definitions... CAOS is a dev tool, designed for people who know exactly what they are doing and/or are willing to commit several days or weeks to memorizing the various classifier numbers, script numbers, chemical numbers..... It simply wasn't designed with the weekend hobbyist in mind; one can't simply pick it up, check the docs, and script a simple agent in five minutes. A complex agent like the GB? I'd expect weeks, perhaps even months, of work. Truth be told, I can't imagine many who would be willing to commit that kind of time to a single project. It takes the kind of dedication that Amaikokonut has. And I doubt that even I could muster that much. :/ My favorite norn is still Belldandy.   Sixty Third Karias   6/13/2013  1 I'm not sure what does make this group of the CC different from what they were back when I was new, but I certainly do notice a difference. There's much more complexity and diversity now in metarooms, agents, etc. Although I will admit - Agents like Clucky's are classic. -Karias; a bit fruity and gone bananas in the wrong climate!   Bifrost   6/14/2013 I miss Lis Morris and a few of the awesome oldies, though.   Minx   6/14/2013 I have never created anything for the community, but I've been in and out since C1 began. I was 11., so I assume others were much younger as well. Like others said, some of us have been here from the beginning, so maybe the ideas were always there. It just took a little more knowledge (and age!) to make the most of this wonderful series. I want to create a C3 breed someday.. Formally defectiveminx.   Senior Wrangler Nutter   6/14/2013  1 I think defectiveminx might have hit the nail on the head there. When C1 came out, I was in my late 20s; there were some people around my age or older, most of them not in IT; a lot of the people (this was on agc) were quite young, so not in a position to know how to code, although there were still a lot of cobs written, with varying levels of success. There was some coding done (think Brad's wolfling monitor and all the utilities written by LummoxJR, not to mention the semi-official stuff done by Slink and Lis Morris) but the net was relatively new back then. A number of those early C1 fans grew up to go into programming and science, but didn't stay in the creatures community, so that knowledge was lost. Some of the people doing great stuff with C3 now are still relatively young, but they've grown up with the net, computers and coding, and I think that makes a big difference.   Minx   6/14/2013 I forgot about LummoxJR! Did he do Norn Underground? When I came back to the community, I was so sad the site was gone that I just looked at archived pages of it for an hour or so. That was a few days before I found this wonderful place! I want to create a C3 breed someday.. Formally defectiveminx.   Senior Wrangler Nutter   6/14/2013 Yeah. I still miss the Norn Underground, it was a great place.   Prodigal Sock Ghosthande     6/14/2013  1 I think it could have been a combination of things. On the one hand, we did see some really awesome developments. GAIA comes to mind. But then, like Nutter says, a lot of people were younger back then. A lot of us who develop things now, like Aquashee, Amaikokonut, etc. were in that category. Lis Morris wasn't. Not only are the oldbies more "grown up", development has become more accessible. Many of the development tools are free for download now, when you had to pay $20 or something to get them before. For a twelve-year-old, buying a Norn pack seems like a better investment than buying a development tool and crossing your fingers that you'll be able to figure out how it works. That was my reasoning, anyways. We also get new tutorials every year. Like the metaroom tutorial series by Liam and co., which includes room basics but also how to write your own MNG files. MNG files haven't changed a bit, true, but how much harder would it have been before that tutorial was published? So I think we've hit upon a situation now in which all the details are "just right". We have grown-up players with a very strong attachment to the game, who now have a better grasp of programming. We have access to all of the development tools for free whenever we want them. And we have an ever-increasing number of tutorials to help people along. The fall of Creatures Labs and increasing inactivity of Gameware just seems like extra incentive to me: not being albe to rely on "The Company" to make us new breed or agent packs put future development solely in the hands of the players. Maybe that will change when Creatures Online comes out, but I think enough players have started developing that this kind of activity isn't going to subside now. Heck, we still have people developing for C1 and C2--moreso now than in past years, even--so even if we have the option to develop for Creatures Online, I don't see C3/DS development fizzling out. (Although C1toCO could be interesting *cough*)   Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager   6/14/2013 Some more things: Lack of flame wars. People get stuff done instead of fighting with one another. Plenty of existing creations to build on. Many developers are now releasing their stuff as open source or free to modify. Desperate for innovation, but without any official content on the horizon for a decade. (I think this is what Ghosthande was getting at, a bit.) Easier access to resources with the rise of open source in general. More and better free graphics programs, sound editing programs, text editors etc.   Sixty Third Karias   6/14/2013 The last two to me are especially true. -Karias; a bit fruity and gone bananas in the wrong climate!   Lodestar Doringo     6/14/2013 I can think of a few: I have never seen a troll or someone attempting to troll in these forums, which is good. Anyone with an account has the ability to post news, and nobody abuses it.   Minx   6/14/2013 Doringo, I think that's an excellent point! I have never been part of a forum/community that didn't have a troll or two among them. It's quite impressive and speaks to our general camaraderie. Everyone here is incredibly helpful, kind, and tons of fun. I want to create a C3 breed someday.. Formally defectiveminx.   Small Birb Pann     6/17/2013  2 I think so too, in all the other places I've been in the past there were trolls all over the place. I've always seen this community as a group that's creative, really puts their heads together, and are just really intelligent. Also it's like a family really. Some communities are so huge no one gets to know each other fully. This one has always stood out to me, in that way. Sorry if this had nothing to do with the development bit, but I think everyone before me covered it nicely. Small bird who lives here sometimes, and wanders other times. Got Creatures related content to share? Submit to Heck Yeah, Creatures! Icon by gettehld on twitter!   Bifrost   6/17/2013  3 I think we can credit our lack of trolls to the moderators, who are doing an excellent job with politely, but firmly nipping any harsh and even remotely hostile comments and opsts in the bud; sometimes altering posts, sometimes deleting them, always with a firm, but polite warning. (I've been in the receiving end of one such myself, and I'm very grateful for it.) That's a great part of making sure this remains a welcoming, polite community, where creativity and activity are allowed to prosper.

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