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Creatures 4 New Drive - 'Altruism'!!   
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  11/24/2012

From here:

Andrea Di Stefano wrote:
Norns have a new drive that actually makes them react to things that can be beneficial for the community like repairing toys, watering plants etc. We're still working out some details (like links to other drives) but we're happy with it and it sustains the feeling of growin a colony of Norns that can look out for each other.
Internally, we call this "altruism" although I think we can find a better name for this new drive (suggestions are welcome).



How exciting, altruistic norns! [nlaugh]


My TCR Norns
 
c1anddsaddict

c1anddsaddict



  11/24/2012

It does sound cool. I think I would find it easier to get attached to norns who care about each other and act on it.

DS village

My TCR norns

STAY AWAY FROM THE MOLDY, DISEASED CHICKEN NUGGET STASH!!!

 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  11/24/2012

I'm just idly wondering how this could be connected with a CFE brain... in that norns who disliked other norns would have a lower altruism drive... and that norns who were disliked could win favour by being highly altruistic? XD I mean, you'd have to rewrite pretty much everything in C3/DS to account for an altruism drive to be of any use there... but it's fun to think about! [nlaugh]

My TCR Norns
 
ylukyun
Patient Pirate

ylukyun

Manager



  11/24/2012

I wonder if varying levels of social organization will emerge in different populations.
 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  11/24/2012

Or if wolfling populations would be more or less altruistic....

My TCR Norns
 
Frogman

Frogman



  11/25/2012  1

FC seem to want us to conduct experiments on our creatures...I like this.
 
Laura
Tea Queen

Laura


 visit Laura's website: CC Chat
  11/25/2012

Do you reckon this new 'Altruism' drive will make caring for Norns easier in the long run, as they develop the capability to do more things for themselves? I always liked having some sort of challenge when it came to raising Norns. Saying that though, I do love the idea; it's definitely something that could get me playing Creatures religiously again. And the idea of Norns watering plants is just cute. [nhearts]
 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  11/25/2012

In all the literature we've seen on the 'fixing things, watering plants' feature, it's been said that we'll need to cultivate a variety of skills amongst our populations to keep them going, so that's another aspect to the gameplay - i.e. you're not going to have Renaissance Norns who are interested in fixing everything they can.

Another question is whether we, as the Hand, will be able to fix things or water plants by ourselves, or if we'll have to pay Golden Eggs or rely on altruistic norns to do so?

I'm not sure how the Stats/Skills will be chosen - perhaps norns will be able to 'imprint' on objects by fixing them early in life, and develop an affinity for fixing toys or watering plants accordingly? [nlaugh] It's a bit fanciful, yes, but it's entirely possible - for example, norns without instincts for boredom can learn how to lower their boredom by kiss-popping. [nhearts]


My TCR Norns
 
Amaikokonut

Amaikokonut


 visit Amaikokonut's website: Naturing :: Nurturing
  12/5/2012

Wow, that's interesting. I remember I had a similar idea planned in my ideal re-write of creatures-- I called them "sympathy drives" though, hah.

Old Blog Post
 wrote:

Territoriality is a strange sort of "sympathy drive" I want to introduce. It's a drive maintained by an external script that assesses the general comfort of the local tribe population based on their average anger/fear/crowded/etc drive levels and then silently adjusts the territorial drive of each creature to match. Thus, the drive won't actually go down until the tribe as a whole is happier, but creatures could reduce the drive for themselves temporarily by doing things that might help their tribemates feel comfortable, like digging tunnels, approaching enemy territory, hitting enemies, and so on. I'm thinking about two of these if I have the slots, one for tribal discomfort and one for tribal hunger.

Food, I want to be a resource that has to be maintained to an extent. I don't want it to be impossible to come by, but I don't want it to be plentiful and everywhere. Food is something that creatures would actually have to forage for. Digging in shallow soil or pushing a plant may yield something edible-- sort of like a chance-based vendor. Since creatures would be instinct-less based, they won't have the half-strength instinct trick to properly use vendors. Instead, the tribal hunger drive would be what drives a creature to forage.



I wonder if it'll end up similar to that, if the needs of the surrounding creatures will affect a creature's Altruism drive, or if it'll be more dependent on how much they like the surrounding creatures. Pretty interesting.


[Naturing :: Nurturing]
 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  12/7/2012

And from this old post, it looks like the instincts to do skill-things when feeling altruistic will switch on at adolescence. :)

My TCR Norns
 
Salabasama

Salabasama



  4/16/2013  1

That's a great idea. I'll no longer have to hate my norns for the same reason I tend to hate small children before they learn to value the happiness of others over maximizing their own. I would also hope that some level of drive reorganization is possible through teaching, such that I can make norns who relieve boredom through altruistic acts, and create a tribe of communist norns.
 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  4/16/2013  1

Hopefully they'll be easier to find than the Communist Ettins. [nwink]

My TCR Norns
 
Feddlefew

Feddlefew



  4/26/2013

Maybe norns will bring food to and care for their young? Because in the current games in the series norns just pop out an egg and (maybe) carry it back to the nest.
 
C-Rex
Lollipop Lord

C-Rex


 visit C-Rex's website: The Norn Nebula
  5/23/2013

I'd love to see Norns care for their young; Norn parents in the previous games didn't really bother about the babies, and I've actually heard about Norns killing their own offspring, and even vice-versa!
 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  6/29/2013  1

It looks like altruism is included in the Owner's Kit (it has a Hoverdoc-like feature for keeping track of drives), as a pair of two hands clasped, like one hand helping another up. [nhearts]

My TCR Norns
 
Steelfoot

Steelfoot



  6/29/2013  1

As my little brother and I were talking about the new genetics and drives and such, he said something that briefly gave me pause: "what happens if the Altruism drive mutates in such a way that it's satisfied by something else?" We both briefly laughed at the concept of a norn who just eats a pile of cheese whenever he feels the need to do something to help his fellow norn. Shortly thereafter, the conversation then segued into terror at the prospect of one that had the Altruism drive satisfied by bringing harm to other creatures.

Suddenly, the new drive has gotten very interesting to me. What personality traits could be manipulated out of this drive? Obviously the polar ends of "all-caring great mother of nornkind" and "psychopath that believes the ultimate cure for suffering is to destroy all life" come to mind, but the possibility of norns bred for a specific purpose intrigues me. Genetic manipulation or development of breed lines centered around specific facets of the Altruism drive may result in norns specifically aligned to, say, care for plants or repair toys or machinery. Though distant and difficult, the thought has occurred to me of a fully functional, somewhat self-sufficient norn society, with specialist species working on specific tasks and gaining pleasure in those things. This would likely result in a strict caste system and/or separation of the "classes" of norns so as to prevent interbreeding and muddling of each genetic pool, but the prospect is there. The Shee themselves bred norns initially as entertainers, and the ettins were designed for a specific purpose; to me, this is almost the logical conclusion of the Shee's work, an artificial life form refined to produce its own society as a companion to the Shee race.

Then again, this all pretty much goes out the window when you actually interact with norns, and realize that despite clever code and years of refinement, they're still saying things like "eat door." Still, idea is there!

 
ylukyun
Patient Pirate

ylukyun

Manager



  6/29/2013

Sadist Norns! No need to torture your Norns, now the process can be outsourced to other Norns!
 
Papriko
Peppery One

Papriko



  6/30/2013

Sooo, instead of beating up each other, you can also teach them what a joy it is to manipulate and sabotage machines in certain areas in order to let the society collapse? Sounds interesting...

Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...
 
C-Rex
Lollipop Lord

C-Rex


 visit C-Rex's website: The Norn Nebula
  6/30/2013

The idea of psychopathic Norns is quite interesting; imagine a Norn hell-bent on destruction! I do hope the Norns genes can mutate though, it wouldn't be very fun if all Norns acted the same way.
 
Spykkie

Spykkie



  6/30/2013

Altruism makes sense, considering norns have always 'tried' to help each other by answering each other's pleas for food or toys. Maybe they'll finally listen to each other's suggestion or share their food with the hungry ones. :)

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