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General Forum Question of Naturality    Peppery One Papriko      8/10/2009 Hello people. I am (or would, first need my new OS and then I can reactivate my DS worlds) breeding crossbreeds. ChiChi, Fallow, Dusty Aquas. I notices a little while ago that they are semi-immortal. They did not die from alone and when I looked into their genomes, I saw that "Die of Age" and "Die of low ATP" mutated to senseless genes which do anything, but not killing the creatures. I wanted to keep them natural (without splicing or helping) but in this extreme case I was thinking about a mass gene-therapy to make them mortal again. My question is now: When I correct this little mistake and ABSOLUTELY nothing else, may I still call them "naturally bred"? They are really funny and good, but that is a really annoying problem. Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...   ToxicNorn     8/10/2009 If its spliced probably not, but if you edit the genes maybe. My site: http://toxicnorn.webs.com/   EmergencyTowel   8/10/2009 yes,fixing a problem with their genes has nothing to do with how they are bred. In my nerd cave, nobody can hear you scream. Feed my pets: Shroomy and Glow!   3kul   8/17/2009 Um, what? Fixing a problem with their genes has everything to do with how they're bred, you can't say that a creature was naturally bred if you've manually editted their genes, that's not 'natural' at all. Don't get me wrong Papriko, I think that your norns would be much better off if you fixed their broken death genes, but you can't call them 'naturally bred' if you're undoing their natural mutations.   Malkin Manager     8/17/2009 3kul, we're playing a game on our computers about selectively breeding an artificial life form designed by humans which attempts to model some aspects of nature in a computer. Why so serious? Would it be any more 'unnatural' to start off with unmutable CFEs, who have been designed to always have a death? (Some would say working around that flaw is much more natural than immortals...) My TCR Norns   Amaikokonut     8/17/2009 I have to go with 3kul on this one; though it's not really a matter of artificial or not, it's just a matter of "CC dictionary" definition. As far as I know, "naturally bred" as a term has always referred to creatures that have not been manually tinkered with. Though admittedly the line does become a bit gray when you're referring to the offspring of creatures that have been tinkered with. [Naturing :: Nurturing]   Malkin Manager     8/17/2009 All norns have been manually tinkered with, otherwise they wouldn't exist. Is it such a divide between what the official creators did and what third party gengineers do that offspring from one is 'naturally bred' and one is 'gengineered'? My TCR Norns   Peppery One Papriko   8/17/2009 As I said: the changes would be really limited to the broken death genes and my last post was a bit long, so here why I'm unsure: Pro Editing: Immortalness is at least as unnatural as editing, when not even more. Did you every here of an immortal life form in RL? Contra Editing: Editing is editing, even when you only do minimal changes. Those norns are meant to be "bio-norns", but that would make the line kind of dirty. These two arguments have for me about the same value, thats why I ask you people. Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...   Amaikokonut     8/17/2009 It's not really much of a divide, no. But it is sometimes considered more of a breeder's accomplishment to have an interesting naturally bred creature who's characteristics came about by careful selective breeding and/or chance mutation rather than taking the shortcut of opening the genetics kit (or whatever your preferred genome editor is) and altering them that way. It's really your personal choice though, Papriko. In my eyes, once you alter their genetics using an external program, the creatures themselves are no longer entirely "natural." If you want to stick with the natural breeding challenge, you may try instead monitoring the warp for some interesting creatures to fold into your current population, then try to only breed the offspring that have normal death genes. Though if you don't want to help them... I'm not sure what to tell you there. But honestly, even if the death genes are tinkered with, all the other characteristics the creatures have are still naturally bred characteristics. Though everyone has their own opinion on how many generations have to go by before a creatures could be considered naturally bred again. I guess technically any creature that is born from two creatures kisspopping might be considered naturally bred. Naturally bred creatures and naturally bred characteristics are different things, really. [Naturing :: Nurturing]   Peppery One Papriko   8/17/2009 Warped Norns I usually don't trust. Once, when I was new, I got one that looked good and had lots of offspring. When I integrated him into my colony I met the first time immortal norns... I would add some generation 1 norns, but the massive inbreeding also caused all the good abillities they have, so I want to stay stick to it. Thanks to all who helped me in that situation. I think I will try to fix the death genes, but the population will probably collapse, because of a lack of Life Chemical. I when that bug is not in the Half Life gene, it will let them die and start over again. I still have my Brown Norns. They are natural, too and already around generation 20-25. Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...   Amaikokonut     8/17/2009 Haha, yeah I can see where you're coming from on the warped norns thing. You really never know what's in those things. They can carry some interesting traits sometimes though. Do you plan on uploading any of your semi-immortals to TCR or anywhere else before trying to fix them? I'd be curious to try selectively breeding creatures like those in my spare time. [Naturing :: Nurturing]   Peppery One Papriko   8/17/2009 I even don't have a TCR account and I always forget the URL Would you please post it? If you want to see some of those norns, I will not touch the world until some are uploaded anywhere. Maybe you know my screenshot "Dark Side Reclame in DS" here on CC.com. The Norns at the left are the ones we talked about all the time. Ok, not really those, but they look the same and the ones on the screenshot are ancestors of the immortal ones. I started with a ChiChi Pair, a Fallow Pair and a Dusty Aqua Pair and did not add new blood to them. Now they are around generatiuon 80 (one more reason why I want to save them. thats already high for me.) Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...   Amaikokonut     8/17/2009 TCR is found at http://tcr.diagonalfish.net Oooh and those norns do look really interesting If it's not too much trouble to to upload one or two I think it would make a quite nice addition to my pet world gene pool, or anyone else's really. I'll just have to watch carefully and only breed their offspring if they have normal death genes. [Naturing :: Nurturing]   Peppery One Papriko   8/18/2009 oooooh, %@&§ !!! I deleted the world and forgot >.< Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...

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