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 TheSecond    |
Right about now I'm feeling like that guy in the story The Emperor's New Clothes. You know the guy. He's the one who had the guts to say the emperor was naked. I am happy that there's going to be a C4. Let me get that out of the way right off the bat. It's been so long since the release of C3, and I was extremely disappointed by the shutting down of CLabs and the eventual cold shoulder given us by Gameware. I'm hoping that Fishing Cactus will give me back my love of Creatures and sharing those creatures with everyone the world over. But. And this is a big but, pardon the pun. I am not happy with the character design FC chose. I am feeling as if they are taking away my norns and tossing me a bunch of Teletubbies. Don't get me wrong, Teletubbies are cute and all... if you're three years old. First off, as I have asked in the title of this post, can I have my muzzle back? Please? Every norn generation from C1 to C3 has had a muzzle, you know, a snout. I think it gives the norns a certain charm. Muzzles on norns are like whiskers on kittens, without them they're just not the same. Second, um, where's my tail? We finally get a 3D norn and we can't even grab him by the tail? Well, that's not the primary reason for a tail. Take a look at a doberman if you will. Take away a dobie's tail and he looks a lot less friendly. Heck, I might look less friendly too if someone whacked off one of my primary socializing tools. Say my eyebrows, for instance. That's what a norn without a tail is like, me without eyebrows. Thirdly, what the heck, am I a koosh now? OK, well, some of the younger generation may not be familiar with the koosh fad. Basically, a koosh is a rubber ball with rubber strings attached. It's all fuzzy and stuff. They were great for whacking my brother upside the head (don't whack you brother upside the head with a koosh. It's mean). Anyway, any time I see this particular CG style with all the fuzz, I am reminded of a koosh. Not a bad thing to be reminded of, maybe, unless what your looking at is supposed to be a norn. Now OK, yes there have been art style changes within the Creatures series before, most dramatically the change from hand drawn sprites to prerendered CG. However, all of the other, familiar elements were still there. So even though norns were now prerendered (and a bit ugly), you could point to one and say with confidence, "That is a norn." Can you do that with a C4 norn? Can you point at it and say, with all of your heart, "that is a norn"? Or would you rather say, "Oh, look. They made a teletubbie game." Anyway, to sum this all up; am I the only one? Is there anyone else out there that agrees? And even if you don't, what is your opinion on the new character design? TheSecond. My favorite norn is still Belldandy. |
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 Air Guitarist kezune |
I understand your point but I'm still more concerned about the gameplay than the graphics. I mean, I'm a retro gamer at heart so my need for bright shiny or perfectly stylized graphics just doesn't exist. (StarTropics is one of my favorite games ever and I still play it but NES graphics aren't all that... good. And neither are Morrowind's original graphics.) That said, I've noticed the differences from the older games but it didn't bother me. At all. What scares me most is the idea that C4 might turn out to be just another pet game and not a social, chemical or genetic simulator. Updated Rehosting Policy[/title] |
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TheSecond |
I have that fear myself, kesune, but just today I went back through all of FC's articles, and after reading between the lines and sifting through all the 'Bright Shiny Bling Bling' nonsense, I find nowhere where FC has said the gameplay model has changed, except for the addition of Achievements and Social Mode. So I like to believe that means we can have our flock of genetic test subjects if we so choose. Of course, I may be wrong and FC may be blowing smoke up my nether regions. My favorite norn is still Belldandy. |
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Air Guitarist kezune |
The problem is that the addition of the Achievements and Social mode frighten me a little bit. If we're lucky, Social Mode allows us to do something similar to the original DS warp. Otherwise, I'm not holding my breath for anything. I don't even have any standards. I've been let down by too many games promising to be scientifically minded. (see also, Spore.) Updated Rehosting Policy[/title] |
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 Jessica |
I agree that the visual elements haven't been my main concern: It's the meat of the Creatures series that I really want to see. I'm not faulting Fishing Cactus, but the majority of updates have been focused around the visual elements. I've been happy to read about how some of the advanced gameplay elements are being included, but I'm still wary about how they'll be implemented. The Norns are appealing in their own way, but you'll never hear me say that I prefer them over my standard C1 Norns! Their movements and facial expressions might be extremely limited, but I never felt like I needed stunning graphics to enjoy the game. I really do want to give Creatures 4 a chance and allow it to open up Creatures to a whole new generation. I'm not looking forward to the whole "online all the time" requirement, though. Imagine if there wasn't a way to disable the DS login... Although not exactly the same concept, it shows that an online game with a server could go down whenever and leave players in the dark. I much prefer my 10+ year old Creatures games that can be enjoyed anytime, with or without an internet connection! I'm far from pessimistic, but I really don't want to set myself up for crushed dreams. Spore was one such game, and we all know how that turned out! |
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TheSecond |
Ah, spore is a different subject altogether, which I could derail ten topics with. But on the topic at hand. I see the achievements as a possible good thing. Kids these days like achievements, they make them feel special (apologies to any kids these days that I may have offended with that statement. Present company is very much excepted). And on the topic of game mechanics changes... Altruism. What the heck is altruism. Let's ask the Mr's Merriam and Webster. al·tru·ism noun \ˈal-trü-ˌi-zəm\ 1 : unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others 2 : behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species OK, so altruism is behavior that is beneficial to others. Wait, what? A Creature (and by that I mean a Creatures creature) should not, by any means, have an altruism drive. Altruism is not a basic biological need, it's a nebulous, man-made concept that helps him sleep at night. Why on earth does a Creature need altruism? So it can not feel bad about itself? But, like I said before, I hope this is just a small tidbit that they're tossing the kiddies (again, apologies to the kiddies). Hopefully the game has more depth than just 'Hey, let's make a pie for our friends!' Oops, I wasn't going to rant about the game play. Darnit kesune, you made me do it.  My favorite norn is still Belldandy. |
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Air Guitarist kezune |
I'm actually a little bit excited about altruism. I'm interested in developing creature tribes (and likely waging creature wars) and having the game expand into new and complex ways. But uh... Yeah, back on topic. Graphics don't bug me a bit. XD Updated Rehosting Policy[/title] |
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 Rat-tailed |
I think it would be a nice change to have creatures interact with each other in more human ways. As long as they arn't horrible, and pre-scripted. Something you can edit as you wish. Alturism is a way to do that. It could always be.. edited out, however. Or you could teach norns to have negative alturism and be mean on purpose. I don't know alot about it though. Is it a drive, like eating? Does it vary? A drive would be awesome, and editable, and simply add another level to the game. I used edit alot here. I apologize. XD |
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 Wee Scrivener Trell |
TheSecond wrote: You sir, have made my day. Trell "Holy crap in a casket!" |
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 Malkin Manager |
TheSecond wrote: Altruism has been long-observed in animals, though - stuff like helping to raise your sibling's children. My TCR Norns |
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 Feddlefew |
Altruism is also why multicellular creatures exist. Because your liver cells don't get to pass on their genes, do they? |
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TheSecond |
Both good points. Perhaps I, myself, need a lesson in altruism, eh?  My favorite norn is still Belldandy. |
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 Lollipop Lord C-Rex |
I mostly have nothing against C4, I mean, we're lucky to get a sequel after all these years anyway. My only problem are the tailless Norns. I've used 3D programs before, and it seems pretty easy to create a tail and rig it. |
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 Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
I thought it was a stylistic decision. Either that or something to do with their locomotion. |
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 Nornynorn |
I think that norns are pretty cute with or without tails.  |
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 Peppery One Papriko |
Graphics really isn't that much of a problem. Morrowind was a good example, the graphics are quite edgy (though they were awesome at the time the game was published). A more extreme example would be me playing NetHack. It is a rogue-like game with ASCII letters as graphics. ASCII graphics are really not too pretty, even when they are colored, but the game is still pretty cool, better than many 3D things I have seen. For the tail-thing: I also think they should have a tail. Ever experimented in C3/DS with sprite genes and changed the tail to Ettin Slot A? The result looks just... weird. It can be cute and all, but the tail clearly makes it cuter or easier to find it cute. About the altruism I am not sure either. Might be fun, especially when it can be tweaked. Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... |
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 Puddini |
If you ask me, I don't really mind the Norn's new look. It looks more natural and takes away their cartoony appareance, but I like it. As for tails, Norns are still cute without them and pepole can add them in third party breeds. I hope Social Mode is something like the DS Warp. I don't want to miss it again! About altruism, I'm really interested in it and I would love to know more about it. |
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 Sixty Third Karias |
Well at least I don't feel so alone on my opinions now. Personally I do have a lot of issues with how C4 looks, but tails aside, my main issue is actually the world itself. I loved the previous three games for the beauty in the worlds, especially C1's 2D artwork appearance with Albia. It was beautiful. But, C4 really does look like a cross between Spore and some sort of handheld game, you know, where the graphics aren't terrible but are at the same time pretty lazy looking. Like they didn't bother putting in shadows, textures, etc for the sake of a more "interactive" less "background sprites" world. Not sure if that makes sense to others though. I tend to word things wrong.  I guess what I'm saying is, it looks like a kid dreamt of Cartoon Easter in Albia.-Karias; a bit fruity and gone bananas in the wrong climate! |
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Feddlefew |
I'm pretty certain that FC said the color scheme and art direction was chosen because of Tablet and smart phone limitations. I think it looks a lot like some of our metarooms, actually. |
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 Moonlily |
Actually Altruism is found in nature; I think because it doesn't fit well in our Darwinistic model (survival of the fittest) in gets overlooked. But from an overall survival prospective it makes senses to look after ones own colony or tribe. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/02/the-paradox-of-altruism/ |
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Puddini |
Psst, I just discovered Fishing Cactus has a Tumblr! http://fishingcactus.tumblr.com Maybe we could try to ask something? |
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Nornynorn |
I think C4 norns are pretty cute. |
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 NornsOfOurAlbia |
Say my eyebrows, for instance. That's what a norn without a tail is like, me without eyebrows. I keep looking at your avatar, without eyebrows, and am not sure what to think. The world is a confusing place. |
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Puddini |
Holy poop guys! FC ACTUALLY AWNSERED! |
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 Tea Queen Laura |
Congratulations; they are usually pretty good and prompt at responding to e-mails. |
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Moonlily |
I'm still excited; and i'm trying to push away all feelings of disappointment i found with spore, "it can't happened like that again" |
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Puddini |
What if we "discover" the other breeds as we play? Same could happen with the Grendels and Ettins! |
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 autogatos |
When I first saw the C4 designs I was fairly unhappy, but I think they're growing on me, or some shots just look better than others (the pink norn in NornyNorn's avatar is actually pretty cute). My favorites have always been the Pixie (C1 and 2), pretty much all the C2 norns, and the Bengal norns, so the more flat-faced, tiny ear, bald look will take a bit of adjustment for me. I'm hoping maybe there will be a bit of variation in the faces, like eye size and such. I think I read there are different ear shapes and sizes? So I can hopefully have some bigger-eared norns. And I do miss the tails.  |
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 Ettina |
I *like* teletubbies. By the way, I don't care if anyone steals my ideas for their own work, as long as you don't try to stop me from making my own stuff. Many ideas I mention are things I don't have the time or skill to actually do. |
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 Kappsune |
I am a bit concerned about the new graphics. Right now, I'm comparing Laura and Puddini's avatars, and I'm seeing some major differences. Ever since I saw the first pictures of the C4 Norns, I thought they looked like cartoony human-like bipedal cats. I kind of have mixed feelings about the new Altruism drive. I do like the idea of possibly being able to create different villages and stuff, but I also think the drives they have now are all they really need. I haven't seen enough about the game play to comment on it, I'm just hoping much hasn't changed. Sorry for the rant, I just hope I will still like the game when it comes out. |
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 Lenn |
i guess the most of us first wants to see more of the game or even test it before they realy know what they think of it. Ik zwaai met mijn handen en mijn handen zwaaien terug. |
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Razgriz |
Indeed, I'd rather get a firm view of gameplay and such before really deciding on how I feel about the game. Personally, I don't mind the new Norn look at all. I'm more concerned about the online aspect to be quite honest. If we look at other games that have attempted always-connected gameplay, namely the recent SimCity and Diablo 3, it doesn't work out. Now granted, CO is unlikely to have the scale of players as those two did but it's still something I'm worried about. Not to mention the microtransations as well. |
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Peppery One Papriko |
And then the kind of stuff you have to pay for... I mean, real money for fast forward? There are many games with fast forward, but AFAIK this would be the first one which requires you to pay for it. New content okay, I can understand that. That's additional effort to the game and thus deserves to be paid extra, but fast forward? C'mon Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... |
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Razgriz |
I have to agree with you, Papriko. Additional content made after the game launch is one thing, but to withhold features unless paid for in actual cash is just plain unreasonable. Then there's the fact that unless they're aggressive with micro-transactions, they won't make much profit. By aggressive, I mean essentially making you pay up to continue with the game. Otherwise, CO will likely end up as a loss for Fishing Cactus and basically put the series back in stasis until some other studio is brave enough to develop a new entry. |
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 Spykkie |
So far the only thing I'm not satisfied with in terms of graphics are the norns, they look a bit too much like cartoon monkeys, and the lack of tail is a bit sad... but considering additional content will be released after the launch, it's easy to guess they'll probably get around to making more classic looking features and extra bits to put on the norns, like tails and horns if not included at launch. I get the feeling creating norn breeds might work a bit more like creating a sims3? That might explain why we've seen kind of different looking norns over time. I wouldn't consider it a bad thing if it worked like that, honestly. Would make the process easier. I do want to see the gameplay though... because believe it or not, I've played the...ho man what was it... the creatures game boy version? the norns looked like norns(well, tiny pixely norns), but the game play was very different in a way that made it boring... the whole point of the game was to keep the norns alive long enough to unlock the next room... and that was pretty much it. Sure you had more room for your norns but.. what's the point if that's all you get to do...? There wasn't much to explore, there was no diversity in items, no notable fauna or flora... actually i think there just plane were no plants or animals to mess with... I've always considered that one of C3's saving graces is that if you want, you can just watch nature, just watch life living in it; or you can try to breed the rainbow sharks to brighter colours, or just micromanage any animal/plant/fish/bug you want! Even if you're tired of raising norns/ettins/grendels, you can still play the game. I found that to be pretty awesome. Twitt Stuff Insta Arts |
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 Emzie |
The new norn look isn't a huge deal to me. I mean the lack of a tail is kind of weird (and I honestly didn't notice until this thread brought it up), but otherwise it's not a huge stretch from the older games. There is still something about the norns' face that looks off to me, and I'm guessing it's the lack of a muzzle. Oh dear gawd I hope this game is closer to the PC creatures games than the horrible game boy and console ones. I had the playstation game, it was so horrid and nothing like the PC games. It was all about unlocking areas. I really do hope there is an ecosystem component like in C3. I can remember spending hours messing around with the fish and forgetting about my norns! I'm just preparing myself to be disappointed. I know that sounds awful, but I just feel like there's no way this game is going to live up to our dreams and expectations for a new creatures game. Of course I'm going to give the game a try when it comes out, but I'm not getting my hopes up in the least. |
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