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 Geek2Nurse    |
It occurred to me today that norns seem to live in a very black and white world...not in the sense that there aren't colors, but in the sense that things are mostly either good or bad, not both. Good plants, bad plants; good bugs, bad bugs, and so forth. To my (admittedly limited) knowledge, agents either give a positive stim or a negative stim to a norn interacting with them, not a mixture of both. And yet in real life, most things are a mixture of good and bad, and life is full of things that give us both positive and negative feelings. Which got me to wondering whether norn brains are complex enough to handle such things. What if the pleasure of playing with something "bad" was enough to compensate for the fear/pain/whatever negative stim it gave? Would some norns, like some people, avoid it because of the noxious stim, while others endured the negative stim in order to experience the positive one? (Think: scary movies... skydiving... sleeping with someone else's spouse...) Has anybody ever tried anything like that? (The agents, not the examples!) --- Optimist: the glass is half full. Pessimist: the glass is half empty. Engineer: the glass is twice as big as it needs to be. |
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 Malkin Manager |
Some of the stimuli themselves have mixed effects - if you look at 'I have hit', it reduces anger, crowdedness and boredom, but increases tiredness. A fair few actions also give 'hunger for X' as well. My TCR Norns |
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 Amaikokonut |
But one thing to note is that most of the stimuli have their "negative" effects set to "silent" meaning that the creature receives the chemical but doesn't associate it with the current action. One could assume that this is done for the purpose of preventing confusion in creatures, thus one could also assume that the creature's brains can't handle mixed stimuli. ..But that said, I'm not sure anyone's done any formal testing with it. You could be onto something, still.  [Naturing :: Nurturing] |
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Malkin Manager |
Steve Grand discusses mixing of stimuli here (circa 1997) - in that the mixing is crucial to help norns understand that playing with a ball when bored is good, but playing with a ball when not-bored is bad. Could the lack of mixing seen in C3/DS make for dumber norns? My TCR Norns |
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 Dr.Shee |
I think the stimuli are mixed but the norns are not complex / clever enough to handle it. The more I observe Creatures games the more I think in fact norns don't learn much and survive mostly thanks to random decisions and lack of global balance in the simulation model. Those games are very promising on the paper, but the more you play and analyze the more it looks weak and failed overall. Does any one else have the same feeling? =^_^= Dr. Shee |
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