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Harlequinade

Harlequinade



  12/4/2010

I used to love creatures, and I still do. I greatly enjoy the games and don't intend to stop playing any time soon, but I certainly used to find them more entertaining and immersive several years ago.

"What can I do to make it more interesting?" I asked myself.

After a long time pondering this question, I realised, that it's not because I have been playing the games for so long, it's the games I am playing. I think that Creatures 1 is not only a funner game, it's a more interesting, challenging, immersive, and charming game than Creatures 3.

For a small start, the graphics. The graphics in C1 are much warmer, more welcoming, and generally more charming than the C3 graphics (though I am well aware that the latter's is more advanced.) The dark, gloomy machinery of C3 is barely a comparison to the warm and bright backdrops of C1 (with the little touches like the mushrooms, the "lover's leap" sign, the scarecrow, and the curious buildings on the mountains completing the picture.)

Second, the sound. I won't lie, the piano of C3 is very good, and the way it smoothly makes transition from happy to sad depending on world events is inspiring. However, for some reason, I prefer the strange, charming music of C1 (I even have bits of it on my desktop.) C1's sound effects are also superior, in my opinion. The drippings in the caves, the beepy-thingies of the submarine, and on top of everything, the ticking of the clock in the norn house made and still make me feel happy and right at home.

Now, for the gameplay itself. The ability to hold creatures in C3 was very useful and all, but one, made the game much too easy, and two, undermined the Creatures experience of raising a creature. Above everything else, I find C3 to be easy. Too, too easy. You can take your norns where ever you want them to be in seconds, with a mere click, carry everything around with you in your inventory, cure your norns of any ailment at the touch of a button, make as many geats as your heart desires with machinery, under the pretence of "bioenergy" which is basically another name for "how quickly you can make eggs and stuff them into a bio-degrader", summon a huge pile of food with naught but a click, and as if that wasn't enough, you can take your norns to a medical bay and inject them with whatever chemical they need- starch, protein, energy, even LIFE!

I did not need, miss, or want these things in C1. I made do with what I had. The game was difficult, and funner for it. It actually needed my focus to keep my norns alive. I had to teach my norns english (which, incidentally, was much more satisfying when it was not achieved in twenty seconds by the learning machine in docking station) and decipher their babble to see what they needed, and then find the appropriate fruit, vegetable, herb or medicine to help them. Now, it is all done by a "rocket-doc".

Lastly, it all comes down to the norns. Ah, the norns. The crux of the matter. How they look nicer in C1 than C3. They seem to have a lot more texture and character in C1. And the norns in C3 are most often just stupid (Harlequins excluded, for some reason) I mean, purple with orange spots and red hair? Silver with a yellow quiff/mohawk/thing? I certainly prefer the C1 look. (Whats more, I swear their babble is different between the games.)

The norns seem alot more resistant to hand learning in C3. Saying "Norn push herb" or "Norn push toy" seems to never have any effect. Not so in C1.

Lastly, and most importantly, is the individuality of the norns. In C3, you can hatch as many norns of as many families as you wish, and this, I think, was a biiiiiiiiig mistake. The little things breed like rabbits, and most of the time, you can barely name them all, let alone appreciate their unique personalities. The norns lose their individuality.
In C1, you have but six precious norn eggs, knowing nothing about what lives inside them but their gender. That, I think, is the beauty of it. The last six eggs of nornkind. A single family, generation by generation by generation. You name them, teach them, play with them, learn their personalities, take pictures, get attached to them, feel proud, upset, angry, worried, and are saddened when they die. You put careful thought into their headstone, and miss them.

In C3, you will spend a while naming your first norn. You will carefuly let it explore the safety of the hatchery before letting it see more of the world. Then, you will bustle it off to the learning room, and spend a while teaching it. After that, a newborn will be lucky to have a name, luckier to have thought put into its name, luckier for the owner to take the trouble to teach it and play with it, even luckier if it gets its death registered, and supremely fortunate to have a thoughtful epitaph. Then it only gets worse. Eventually, you kill your norns for fun- partly because you have too many, and partly because its amusing. You cannot do this in C1- Every egg, every norn, is precious and cannot be wasted, because you have so few, and you are all the more attached to them for it. By having so many norns in C3, possible bonds are severed before they began.

Phew. Lordy, did that feel good. I have been fermenting over this for god knows how long, and it feels good to finally have it off my chest. Yes, its probably extremely biased, but its what I think. I would appreciate it if this was not locked, though I understand if it needs to be moved.

I did my best to put my thoughts down, though I am not sure if I succeeded. Please, post your thoughts.

Oh, and if anyone has ideas for a more thoughtful and appealing title, they are welcome.

One more thing: No, I sadly have not yet played Creatures 2.

 
LuciaInFurs

LuciaInFurs


 visit LuciaInFurs's website: The Electric Angels
  12/4/2010

I really enjoyed reading this post! I've not played much of C1 at all, in fact I only got it recently when I downloaded GOG's Albian Years to fix C2 on vista. But I really related to your arguments. Though I'm not a C1/C3 player, I do own C2 and DS and found the same differences between those two. (I would love to hear what you thought of C2 in relation to the two games you spoke about, by the way)

When I first started playing creatures I did actually prefer DS. I was probably about 11 at the time, so the challenge of raising norns on C2 was too great for me. Or perhaps I just didnt have the attention span for it. I also used to think that DS looked *cooler*, by replaying both games in the past few years I am astonished at how detailed the C2 landscape it.

Oh, and the music! Absolutely stunning. It finds a middleground between the desolate, mechanical sounds of DS, and the safe warmness of C1. Very fitting for the scenery and 'story' of the game (if it could be said to have one. Bless Creature Labs for trying). With the vastness, the abandoned aesthetic and the sometimes haunting music, you really felt as though the shee had barely departed. Though desolate, perhaps there was some trace of them left...

So yeah. Oldskool rules.


The Electric Angels (my blog)
http://luciainfurs.wordpress.com/
~*~*~*~*~*~
"Don't you know there ain't no devil,
it's just god when he's drunk"



 
Ghosthande
Prodigal Sock

Ghosthande


 visit Ghosthande's website: Breeders Beware
  12/4/2010

I definitely agree that the C1 graphics and ambience had a lot more charm. And I think most people would agree that C3/DS was far too easy.

There are a couple things you may have missed, though. Norns don't "push" food in C3, they "eat" it, and many fruits can't be eaten straight off the plant--which may be why nothing seemed to happen in that situation. ;)

Personally, I think C2 was my favorite game, OHSS aside. The world was bigger, and although it didn't have the same charm as C1 it was so colorful and diverse it felt very alive. The Norns seemed smarter than C1 and C3/DS, you still started off with six eggs (even if you could get more easily, you were encouraged to rely on those six) and it was challenging to look after them.



 
Lulutherebel

Lulutherebel



  12/4/2010

Personally, I find that although C2 and C1 are the best, it can still be really frustrating raising a norn, only for them to fall into the water, or be beaten by a grendel, if you even leave them for a minute.

The one thing I do enjoy about DS is that you can simply lock the doors and they can't die while you are away from the screen.

And regarding your point about the norns' appearances themselves, I think that there is definitley a major difference between them. In C2 (the only one of the albian years games I have) the norns are so detailed, and the third party norns are always good. In DS most of the third party breeds are very drab, the creators didn't put much imagination into them (minus the Aquas, Jungles, and all of Ghosthande's breeds).

 
eprillios
Geek Ettin

eprillios


 visit eprillios's website: CreaturesCommunity.net
  12/4/2010

Good post, Harlequinade! :)

My personal opinion is that the TAY* series have more 'magic', Norns tend that they are really living in you computer. For example, they make funny poses when you are taking photos within the games. The music in C2 sounds better than the creepy music in most of the rooms in DS. However the semi-3D graphics in C3/DS are lovely.

* The Albian Years.




Geek Ettin's Lab (New!)
Bill Gates: "Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one."


 
Harlequinade

Harlequinade



  12/4/2010

Heh, thanks everyone for bothering to read that very long post and taking the trouble to reply. But ghosthande, I believe I read somewhere that "push" was the universal term for "use". I did frequently try "eat" or "drink" for fruits and potions, but to no avail.

While I was typing the original post, I KEPT thinking to myself "OK, don't forget to say that you have not played C2 yet." And, of course, I forgot to say it. You all described aspects of C2 really well, and now I wish to play it all the more.

And Lulutherebel, I definitely agree with you on your third point. While there are less third party breeds for C1 and C2, most of them are of high quality. The majority of C3/DS's third party breeds are crude recolourings of bengal norns. (Of course, there are some great norn breeds for C3 also.)

 
Ghosthande
Prodigal Sock

Ghosthande


 visit Ghosthande's website: Breeders Beware
  12/4/2010

It's true that "push" is universal--in C1. In C2 and C3/DS, Norns have to actually "eat" food, trying to push it doesn't really accomplish anything.

One thing is true, though--C3/DS Norns don't seem to be able to learn words just by listening to you say them. That always annoyed me, because I liked teaching them by hand. C3 forced you to use the learning computer, and DS didn't even give you that option.



 
Harlequinade

Harlequinade



  12/4/2010

Thanks for clearing that up, and for confirming what I suspected, that you cannot teach norns yourself.
 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  12/4/2010

Have you tried removing the HLM and using Vampess's DS teaching update and Portable Learning Machine instead? The update lets you go around hand-teaching your norn nouns, as you did in C1. The PLM covers words for actions and emotions.

My TCR Norns
 
YouNWah

YouNWah



  12/4/2010

First, I'll say that there is an agent on I tihnk the CCSF 2009 site that lets you teach norns yourself via the hand. (You can also left-click on a nearby object in help mode to teach nouns even in the vanilla game.)

Second, I'll say that I think more of your points are related to Docking Station than Creatures 3. Docking Station made the game far, far easier than it should be with the more disease-resistant norn breeds (and sillier looking at that), holistic learning machine, and empathic food vendor. And you don't need bioenergy anymore, to boot. It also has very lackluster music compared to C3 proper.

Third, don't the Object Injectors of the previous games let you inject whatever cobs you want basically unlimited as well? C3 not only built that into the game, but made it make sense from an in-world point of view which I think greatly adds to immersion. And if you go around recycling eggs over and over then that's your problem for exploiting things like that instead of playing as intended.

And finally, I'll point out that if you don't like the fact that you can pick up creatures (once you've activated that powerup that of course you could just 'kill hots' to be rid of forever), then you do have the option... not to. You don't have to do anything you tihnk takes away from your gaming experience, but you always have the option to if you change your mind. Everyone wins amirite?

-------

I do agree with some of your points though. You don't sound like you really got very involved in C3 though so I'm not sure that you've given it a fair shake. I mean, the teaching thing it should have been pretty obvious from the start. That being said, I've hardly played C1. I do agree that the graphics were 'warmer', though I prefer the aesthetics of the the Ark better still though (probably since I'm a sci-fi nut).

I do like the C1 White-Haired Pixie Norns, but I do think the C2 Hebe Norn is my absolute favorite. The only C3 breeds I really like are the Bruin, Fallow, and Bengal (in that order). It's odd you praised the aquanorns, since I think they're ugly as sin. The texture job and movement of the tail are very poor imo. I'd much rather have the mernons from C2. But yeah, you have a point. Many of the third-party breeds for C3 are recolors (usually unnaturally garish rainbow colors and whatnot) or look horribly amateur next to the official breeds.

Well, that's really all I have to say. Sorry for being so long-winded. :/

 
Harlequinade

Harlequinade



  12/4/2010  1

You may be right, to some extent, when saying I was talking more about DS than C3. However, there ARE no object injectors in C1. I was referring to the geat injectors of the norn terrarium, the seed/egg injector of the jungle terrarium, and the fish egg injector of the aquatic terrarium, and the cheese makers. You had none of those things in C1. The ecosystem was fragile and if you damaged it, then it was damaged for good. In C3 you can just pump more animals in.

True, no one is forcing me to use the pick up cheat, and I barely ever use it. But for some reason, the fact that it is there, that at any point I can just go "Hey, this is too annoying, I can just use this cheat" takes a little of the experience away. Yes, you may think this is stupid, but there you go.

And I don't believe I ever mentioned the aquanorns. You are thinking of Lulutherebel.

 
Ghosthande
Prodigal Sock

Ghosthande


 visit Ghosthande's website: Breeders Beware
  12/4/2010

There's the injector kit. You're talking about vendors and dispensers and egg-layers, those aren't considered injectors per se. An injector is something that injects an external agent or cob (like the C1 christmas pack stuff) into the game.

The thing about pickups is only true for C3, too--everything is automatically "on" in DS, you don't get any choice in whether you use them or not. I definitely agree that it was nicer when the game is more challenging, not just "gee I want to get Billy from Point A to Point B, I'll just grab him by his head and drop him there." It's one of those things that makes it more of a convenient pet game than a life simulation.



 
Harlequinade

Harlequinade



  12/5/2010

Ah. Thanks again!
 
Laura
Tea Queen

Laura


 visit Laura's website: CC Chat
  12/5/2010

I don't really have anything new to add, because my fellow enthusiasts have said it all already, but I'm happy to see more love being spread for C1!

I've said this before in a similar topic, but I love and prefer the "hands on" approach that the applets in C1 encourage; the Science Kit, Breeder's Kit, Health Kit... I find that all of the challenges C1 present make for a much richer gaming experience. I think that's part of the charm and what keeps me coming back, and for me, personally, the game play wouldn't be the same without fighting with my Norns to get them to co-operate!

As for the graphics... In my humble opinion, the steely (and dare I say, clinical?) feel of the graphics in C3 do not compare to the picturesque and more natural feel of the graphics you get in C1. It's almost like someone's painted a beautiful watercolour scene on my screen. It's like a feast for the eyes. So much so that when I do boot up the game, often I'll just happily sit and observe what's happening in Albia all around me, because there's so many pretty things to look at. There's more character put into those graphics, I think! :)

 
scoota94

scoota94



  12/5/2010

I certainly agree, that creatures 1 is definitely more homey and beautiful compared to creature3 and DS.

The only thing that I prefer about creatures 3/DS is how they made the brain much more advanced, but thats about it.

Its a shame that you don't have creatures 2, I think that it keeps some of the beauty of creatures 1 but has the advancements that are in creatures 3. (Organs, genetic splicer, etc.) :)


Don't be worried about who is right, Just follow you heart...
 
Harlequinade

Harlequinade



  12/6/2010

Creatures 2 certainly sounds ever more appealing! And thanks, Laura, I was worried I was the only person who did that.
 
Wiimeiser

Wiimeiser



  12/9/2010

There needs to be a Creatures 4 to sort things out.
For people who miss the applets, there's no reason they can't be panels like the ones in C3.
Also, why not multiple modes? Sandbox (C3/DS style) and Survival (C1/C2 style) come to mind...


Hashikin ko Tyni Kong Taria Haju'Rumia'an Klodz'Proddi. Terdish oxen saur yessi atai Kongo Dolpik!
 
GrayDragonEmily

GrayDragonEmily


 visit GrayDragonEmily's website: Emily's Observations
  12/9/2010

Wiimeiser
 wrote:

Also, why not multiple modes? Sandbox (C3/DS style) and Survival (C1/C2 style) come to mind...


You read my mind.

I like the graphics of C1 and C2, and C3s are only my favorites because I like mechanical things. Never played C1, but I play C2 when I feel I need a break from my crazy studies and experiments (I know, E.R.F.N. are gonna hate me) on creatures.


-GrayDragonEmily
 
Pann
Small Birb

Pann


 visit Pann's website: Heck Yeah, Creatures!
  12/11/2010

I've never gotten a chance to play the original C1 or C2, only the C12DS or C2toDS versions. They sound very nice, and I have seen their graphics. Even if I have only played C12DS, it's really nice just sitting there and looking at the beautiful scenery and hearing the birds sing and the water run. I hope one day I can buy The Albian Years, as I only own C3/DS for now.

C3/DS do have their own charm, but they are easy. Still, with CFE norns, they're a lot more charming and develop better personalities.


Small bird who lives here sometimes, and wanders other times.

Got Creatures related content to share? Submit to Heck Yeah, Creatures!

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Harlequinade

Harlequinade



  12/21/2010

Great posts, all. Playing Creatures 1, I always thought of myself as the Norn's owner. While playing Creatures 3, however, I never find myself thinking like a breeder or a trainer. I catch myself thinking like something, I believe, on the other end of the spectrum- a god.

"Bah! That norn displeased me! TO THE AIRLOCK!"

"Humbug! This terrarium cannot possibly support my plants- HAH! To the atmosphere generator! LET THERE BE CONDENSATION!"

"Alrighty, subjects, time to move to your new home. Everyone bundle into the teleporter, now! Ready? LET THERE BE PARTICLE TRANSMISSION!"

"Too many norns, and the fishies are hungry. Who's it gonna be? Whoooooo's it gonna be? I demand sacrifice!"

You get the idea. It's much more remote in Creatures 3, and, if you would allow me to repeat myself for the umpteenth time, with much less attachment.

 
LuciaInFurs

LuciaInFurs


 visit LuciaInFurs's website: The Electric Angels
  12/21/2010

I could never just kill off my norns in C2. Not just due to sentimentality or cuteness, but the time investment you put into those things! Once you've nursed a C2 norn out of OHSS you're not going to let that effort go to waste!

The Electric Angels (my blog)
http://luciainfurs.wordpress.com/
~*~*~*~*~*~
"Don't you know there ain't no devil,
it's just god when he's drunk"



 
KC11

KC11


 visit KC11's website: DragonClawWritings (Tumblr)
  1/1/2011

I think it all depends on what you want to get out of creatures. I, personally, enjoy C3 and DS because I enjoy tinkering around with programming and genetics without having to worry too much about my latest project being killed off purposely by the program itself. Therefor, C3/DS is perfect for the overly logical tech/bio geeks like myself. :)

However, I also agree that the first Creatures is a lot more satisfying in terms of raising a creature. With C3/DS, you can simply let the norn wander about for an hour and then start mass breeding. You can even force age the thing if you're in a hurry. Creatures forces you to sit down and actually pay attention, which is what I think the whole idea behind the series really was.

Still, I wouldn't say one game is superior to the other. They just serve different purposes.


Do not upset the ugly worm, lest it be a dragon in disguise. (>oo)>

 
MisterPeaches

MisterPeaches



  1/8/2011

Exactly what I think, KC11. While the Creatures 1 environment is infinitely more pleasing to the eyes than C3 and on par with C2, I still think each game has its merits and drawbacks. I find each game has a different appeal and my favorite game often depends on the mood I'm in.

with a taste of your lips

i'm on a ride

 


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