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 mip    |
 I mentioned previously that I was soon going to post the beta version of the breed I have been working on recently. Well, today is that day!You can download the beta of the City Norn breed here: Exploring the Ark This is my first piece of community content for a game and also my first breed. Please let me know if I've missed something or if you have any suggestions that you think would improve the breed! You can get hold of me here or on my journal. Thank you in advance for trying this out!   Exploring the Ark A journal for C3/DS - updated last: 5 May 2013 |
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 Tea Queen Laura |
I've been told that breeds take a lot of time to make, so for your first piece of custom content, I'm in awe of you! And they sound so interesting and complex! I didn't try tackling a breed when I first tentatively entered the world of development, I just stuck to basic agents.  Good for you!  Please feel free to post about the City Norns on the front page, if you fancy! We love reading everyone's news up there and are trying to encourage more. |
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mip |
Gosh, thank you. I wanted to make a breed that would be happy in a Docking Station wolf run so that anyone can play with them. I tried to make my additions thematic and there's more I'd like to add, it's just a case of figuring out how to make it work!This is only a beta so I'm not sure it's really all that news worthy. I want to get all the niggles out before I upload the finished breed but when I do, I'll definitely make a news post on it!Exploring the Ark A journal for C3/DS - updated last: 5 May 2013 |
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 Sanely Insane RisenAngel Manager |
This post is going to come off as sounding rather blunt, and for that I apologize. It is my belief that if the best you can do sprite-wise is recolor official sprites, you're better off simply making a genetic breed. In particular, the color the City Norns are using right now can actually be replicated genetically by messing with the pigment bleed genes (the male Ecliptican Hardman looks almost identical to the male City Norn, minus the Fallow parts). Another note: While I don't know Gameware's stance on this (or whether or not they even care), but CL threw a fit the last time someone tried turning a shop breed into a free breed. Unlike the Fallow Norns (who are bit of a grey area since they're free now), the Hardman Norns and Toxic Norns were never meant to be free. Again, I don't know about Gameware, but it's something to keep in mind when making sprites. ...Well, the above negativity is going to clash with the rest of the thread a bit. I wouldn't let it keep you down, though - for a first project, the City Norns are actually miles above some of the other things this community's churned out. While they may be recolors, the City Norns actually have an original genome - there's a million other recolors that just have the ChiChi genome. Also, I commend you for putting them in a norn slot - if you were to put them in a grendel or ettin slot, you would never hear the end of it from me. I definitely plan on giving them a spin later, if only to give a critique on the genome. Also, congrats on your first release - while you're not alone in starting off with a breed, very few newbies start off with a full breed, sprites and all. Welcome to the development field, and best of luck to you. We await your future endeavors. Risen Angel's Creatures Blog |
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 Caves Dweller Rascii Administrator |
I love the idea of city norns, mip! What a fantastic and fresh idea. I really think this is one of the best breed concepts that I've seen introduced in a while. And I particularly love your post, so I quoted it and turned it into a news article on the main page. I hope you don't mind.  - Rascii |
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 Malkin Manager |
This is a really clever concept - I like that they'll be encouraged to use teleporters, and that they have the allergy to seeds as well as the improvements. Have you considered giving them a stimulus for hitting machines? (eg. the DS cameras) My TCR Norns |
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 Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
It's nice to see something different to all the "natural" breeds for a change! I am trying these out now. |
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mip |
Grendel Man, thanks for your comments. Don't worry, I'm not offended or upset! Recolouring is definitely the lazy man's (or woman's, in my case) spriting. However, I wanted to learn how SpriteBuilder worked and in the end I think the desaturated blue and purple recolours fit the city theme - desaturated like the grey cities they come from and coloured like the night sky from the late night living the city encourages! Personally, I prefer different breeds to have different appearances even if only in colour so while recolouring is lazy, I still prefer that to a purely genetic breed. While this might be a bit of a controvertial opinion regarding the use of Toxic and Hardman sprites, I would rather such lovely sprites get used for projects than have them slowly fade out of use. But then I also believe these breeds should be freely shared - Gameware clearly isn't looking to make money on them or they would have set up a new online shop in the last however many years and privately sharing them for free is really no different than sharing them in the open in my opinion. Anyway! All that aside, thank you for downloading and giving them a go. Your honest feedback will be really useful in fixing anything that's not working quite right and adding new features. Rascii, thank you very much! I saw it on the main page this morning! Malkin, that's an interesting idea. Are there many machines or gadgets that work like that? It might be good for them to have something that works out their frustrations like that. DisasterMaster, ylukyun, thank you for trying out my breed! Please do let me know if you have any ideas that you would like to see added to the breed or if you notice anything that needs fixing. Exploring the Ark A journal for C3/DS - updated last: 5 May 2013 |
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Malkin Manager |
'Hit machine' is more widely used in C3, but can still be seen in the DS cameras. Even if they have the stim without any instinct, they'll still receive something for doing it. My TCR Norns |
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Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
No problems so far. The sprites blend nicely with other breeds. Very fertile but that's good if they love to be in a crowd. |
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Caves Dweller Rascii Administrator |
I think I'll download DS just to try this breed out. 8) - Rascii |
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Sanely Insane RisenAngel Manager |
Okay, I've downloaded them and gave them a spin. On one hand, half my brain says these would still make for a better genetic breed since they look a heck of a lot like on. On the other hand, they actually look really nice in-game. Genome-wise, I congratulate you for avoiding the typical newb mistakes most gengineers make when they start out (e.g. mistaking comfort for something positive and increase it, winding up with creatures that are homesick all the time). I haven't noticed any outstanding flaws so far. However, I would like to note that the City Norns can breed before they need to eat. The normal norn dies at around 30 minutes if they don't eat anything from birth, and the City Norns hit breeding age at roughly 20. Therefore, I suggest that you incorporate the Gizmo Norn digestive edits into the City Norns, which balances out their rapid aging by preventing them from making it to breeding age without eating. I'd also suggest just blanking out their instincts relating to boredom - it might make it more interesting if the norns would learn how to satisfy that drive by themselves rather than being preprogrammed to do so. Then again, that's just what I do - you may be different. Finally, it might be a good idea to make a set of female body data - while it may not be a problem, I've had issues where a breed with abnormal body data was in a slot previous to a recently installed breed whose females lacked body data, and the females of the latter breed come out looking odd. Just something to consider. All told, these are actually nicely done for a first endeavor. Your later projects are bound to go up from here. Risen Angel's Creatures Blog |
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Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
However, I would like to note that the City Norns can breed before they need to eat. The normal norn dies at around 30 minutes if they don't eat anything from birth, and the City Norns hit breeding age at roughly 20. Therefore, I suggest that you incorporate the Gizmo Norn digestive edits into the City Norns, which balances out their rapid aging by preventing them from making it to breeding age without eating. I agree with this. Good advice in general perhaps even for slower aging breeds. |
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mip |
Thanks for the feedback Grendel_Man (and ylukyun too!). I will definitely look into adding the Gizmo genetics you suggested. Malkin has kindly posted the list of Gizmo edits here so I will have a go at working them in later today. How would I go about making female specific body data? Is it just making separate files for a40, a42, a44 etc? I will test changing up the instincts and stimuli and see how it goes. Exploring the Ark A journal for C3/DS - updated last: 5 May 2013 |
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Sanely Insane RisenAngel Manager |
Yeah, that's pretty much how you go about making BD for separate genders. Risen Angel's Creatures Blog |
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Malkin Manager |
Teleporters are unstimulating, so they'll rarely operate them without instincts to do so. Portals, on the other hand, are highly stimulating, so they will learn to work them. My TCR Norns |
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 Minx |
These norns sound wonderful, mip! From a person that is very newb in the genetic world of creatures, I'll give you my uneducated opinion through the awesome power of observation. I will definitely try them out in the next day or so. I want to create a C3 breed someday.. Formally defectiveminx. |
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 Sixty Third Karias |
A norn can live 30 min without food from birth? Learn something new everyday. These sound great, the genetics part especially, but I'm curious, are the hardman sprites required for them? Or are they just a blue version of hardman sprites redone? -Karias; a bit fruity and gone bananas in the wrong climate! |
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mip |
Karias, the sprites are all included in the beta download. They are recoloured sprites rather than genetic pigment changes so you will not need the original Toxic or Hardman sprites. Thank you for trying them out, defectiveminx! The City Norns breed quickly so they should definitely give you lots of genetic mutations to look at! Exploring the Ark A journal for C3/DS - updated last: 5 May 2013 |
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Minx |
That's just about my favorite thing, so I'm looking forward to it! I want to create a C3 breed someday.. Formally defectiveminx. |
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Caves Dweller Rascii Administrator |
I just downloaded them and then realized there aren't eggs in Mukko. So I downloaded the "eggernator" agent but I can't figure out how to use it.  - Rascii |
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mip |
Not to worry Rascii! I'm not at my home computer right now but here's what to do off the top of my head. I'll double check when I get home to make sure this is right.To use the Eggernator to spawn eggs from genomes: 1) Inject the Eggernator agent. I normally do this from the Docking Station injector. The Eggernator should look like a big blue box with pictured tabs on the side. 2)Click the tab with the icon that shows DNA --> Egg - this should be the second from the bottom tab. This tab allows you to type the name of a genome in your Genetics folder and spawn an egg from it. 3)A white typing box should appear above the Eggernator. Type the file name for the genome you want - in this case "citynornbeta" (minus the quotation marks!). Press Enter on your keyboard to spawn the egg! Exploring the Ark A journal for C3/DS - updated last: 5 May 2013 |
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Caves Dweller Rascii Administrator |
Yay! It worked perfectly. Thanks mip! I was typing in the names of the files that I had put in the Genetics folder, like citynornbeta.gen and citynornbeta.gno. Silly me. - Rascii |
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 Geek2Nurse |
Phooey. It doesn't work for me; says I didn't specify a valid genome. Is this another one of those stupid Exodus things? I put the City Norn files into the various appropriate folders under program files...docking station. Was that the right place? --- Optimist: the glass is half full. Pessimist: the glass is half empty. Engineer: the glass is twice as big as it needs to be. |
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Caves Dweller Rascii Administrator |
Yeah I just followed the instructions in the readme file but then I was adding ".gen" and ".gno" while using the Eggerator, when I should have just used "citynornbeta" without quotes. I hope you can get them working, Geek2Nurse. ![:\](/images/smilies/confused.gif ":\") - Rascii |
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mip |
Geek2Nurse, you will need to put the files in your My Documents/Creatures/Docking Station folder. Eggernator will detect them from there. Exploring the Ark A journal for C3/DS - updated last: 5 May 2013 |
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Geek2Nurse |
Thanks, mip, I thought that might be it. If I wasn't so afraid of making it stop working altogether I'd reinstall the whole game and try to get everything into the documents folders...but it took me a day and a half to make it work at all, and by now I don't even remember all the things I had to do to make it work, so I just keep it the way it is and mutter under my breath a lot! --- Optimist: the glass is half full. Pessimist: the glass is half empty. Engineer: the glass is twice as big as it needs to be. |
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Caves Dweller Rascii Administrator |
Why did you have so much trouble getting DS to work? - Rascii |
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Tea Queen Laura |
By the way, you can now download Nexusdia's City Norn pair from the Adoption section; Cityeem and Citybub. |
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Malkin Manager |
It's kind of funny, in a sad way - populations of city norns seem prone to epidemics, because of their resistance to crowdedness. My TCR Norns |
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Geek2Nurse |
Sorry for the late reply, Rascii! I run C3/DS (Kubota Exodus version) on a virtual Windows XP drive on a MacBook Air with Lion OS (which won't run the Mac version). I think it's just a combination of multiple factors that makes it kind of fragile; having stuff split between Program Files and My Documents, the virtual Windoze environment, etc. I'm hoping to get a more solid install done in the next few days, but work and life keep interfering!  --- Optimist: the glass is half full. Pessimist: the glass is half empty. Engineer: the glass is twice as big as it needs to be. |
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 nuclearrainbow |
A very attractive breed and looks interesting behavior. I will download them. ![[heart]](/images/smilies/heart.gif "[heart]") |
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Caves Dweller Rascii Administrator |
Ah, that's right, Geek2Nurse. I think you told me about that before. I have a MacBook Air as well but I'd be too scared to try something like that myself. I just installed DS on my roommate's HP computer with Windows7 instead. Good luck with your solid install! - Rascii |
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mip |
Thank you Laura (and Nexusdia!) for putting a beta couple up for download. Malkin, I had observed that city norn colonies could indeed become hives of illness due to the norns' close proximity in my own tests. However, I don't plan to increase their resistances to illness - picking up everyone's colds and coughs is part of city life, as annoying and sometimes tragic as it is. I should note that when City Norns eat seeds, it produces some Histamine B which causes them to sneeze. If you have norns that seem to consistently sneeze and have no viruses, it could well be that another norn has taught them to eat seeds or a City Norn half-breed has inherited the allergy but has also inherited instincts to eat seeds. It's worth watching your norns closely to see whether they're truly sick or not. Thank you for downloading and trying out my beta breed, nuclearrainbow! Please let me know if you have any problems or suggestions with the City Norns. Exploring the Ark A journal for C3/DS - updated last: 5 May 2013 |
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 Ettina |
"I've had issues where a breed with abnormal body data was in a slot previous to a recently installed breed whose females lacked body data, and the females of the latter breed come out looking odd." Really? That explains what happened with my Harlequin ettins in my wolfling run. I'll have to figure out how to fix that. By the way, I don't care if anyone steals my ideas for their own work, as long as you don't try to stop me from making my own stuff. Many ideas I mention are things I don't have the time or skill to actually do. |
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