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 Patient Pirate ylukyun  Manager |
In the vein of the past two years, I've made a survey (the first of several) for the CCSF. Fill out as much or as little as you can. You're welcome to leave input in this topic as well  I'm keeping it open until May 20th (19th is the last day to get entries in.) |
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 mfb  |
I don't know enough about last year's CCSF to fill in the entire form, but I do want to throw in my two cents about timing: I think it should be a bit (6-8 weeks?) after the launch of C4, to catch the interest of those people who have loaded up the old games, without distracting them from C4 or losing them entirely. Thoughts? Shee Tea Shop |
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 Tea Queen Laura |
http://www.creatures.org.uk/ccsf2011/  I agree with mfb. I don't think they'd be enough notice for everyone if the CCSF 2012 was soon after C4's release in June. I don't know if anyone else will agree, but I've suggested December for the following reasons: 1. It'll give all of us enough time to become acquainted with C4, and also re-acquainted with the previous games. 2. The community will have expanded due to C4 by then; lots of new faces and contributors for the CCSF. 3. We'll probably have lots of fun C4 DLC and/or titbits by then. 4. It'll be a nice run up towards Christmas - although maybe early December, as it's a busy time of year for people? However, this doesn't neccessarily have to be an issue if the CCSF is planned early and people start working on their submissions in advance... |
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 Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
I've voted for November, as usual. I think any date later in the year will be advantageous because it gives everyone more time beforehand to get ready. My own projects certainly won't be finished in three months' time, so if it were that early I wouldn't have hardly anything to put up this year. A lot of people seem to get busy around Christmas, visiting family etc. It should be possible to finish up projects before then, but I've a feeling it would make being around during the CCSF harder for people. Folks usually aren't quite as busy in November, and it seems to have worked out well so far. Barring that, if November didn't work, I would (tentatively) suggest October.  |
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Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
Holy crap, 15 responses already  (OK, one of of them was me, but still...) I think it just went up to 16 as I was typing that. (Edit: it didn't. But still. Wow.)Do we know the exact release date of C4? It's a bit hard to plan around it if we don't.. not really a problem if we have it late in the year, but the responses are very mixed at the moment. (Edit: Not really.. just checked a summary and later in the year is definitely favored.) |
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 mip |
I've added my 2p though I'm not sure how useful my comments will be! I suggested any period from August to November. August and September hold school holidays so it could be a good time for some. October and November are mostly clear months but Halloween and Thanksgiving could cause a drop in participants/readers over those dates. I'm not so sure about December as it's a month where people are pretty pre-occupied about Christmas and they might be too busy. mfb's idea is good as well, though it depends on when the game actually gets released.  Exploring the Ark A journal for C3/DS - updated last: 5 May 2013 |
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mfb |
Seeing the reasoning of the other folks here I think I'm going to hop on the 'later is better' bandwagon, and I reframe my 6-8 weeks number as a suggested minimum time to wait after the C4 launch. Has anyone already thrown down some ideas for themes? Shee Tea Shop |
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 Liam |
I've said this before, but I'm really not sure a survey is the best way to do this--particularly in choosing the coordinator(s). The festival would be much better off if the coordinator(s) volunteered. If you must have a survey, let people volunteer for the job and then let the community choose between them. Most of the people voted for in previous years didn't want the job, as I recall. In addition, there really should be two roles explicated; one who organises the releases, coordinates the timing of releases and ensures those releases make the deadline, and another who maintains the website and does all of the updates. This kind of separation would make things a lot easier for those who do it. - Liam / K'aeloree Spellhold Studios, a Baldur's Gate II, Neverwinter Nights and Oblivion Modding Community |
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Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
Perhaps we do need to rethink the coordinator issue. If we're going to have multiple people (such as one working on the website and one on the releases as Liam suggested) this post raises an interesting point. |
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 Amaikokonut |
Yeeeah coordinating is honestly hard work, and for the past few years we've completely burnt out our poor coordinators and have left them thinking "never again!" I didn't get a chance to make the post before this survey went up, but I was contemplating starting a general discussion about CCSF, topics including "Do we really need to poll again to decide November 1-14th is just as good a time as it was the past few years?" and "Do we really need a theme?" and perhaps most controversial, "Do we actually need a coordinator?" I mean heck, most of us have got blogs and stuff now, CCaves is the major community hub and allows for uploading of creatures and agents; maybe we should just set the date and then let CCSF -happen-, have everyone do their own thing and use CCaves as a news/link hub for whatever people decide to do. We could just have a thread for each day in the news forums and people could post for themselves their releases, contests, etc. I realize that's a very wild and non-traditional idea, but I think it's worth tossing out there. I think it would put the festival more directly into each individuals' hands.  [Naturing :: Nurturing] |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
...Well, I dunno. I could probably do it again, if I had to. I actually sorta know what a CCSF is like now, which is a big step up from how things were in 2008.  I like your idea on not having a coordinator, actually. The only issue I can see is that it would be harder for people to know what was being released, and harder for them to find the releases. Especially after the CCSF was over. Having a stable CCSF site keeps everything together and ensures the content will be accessible for people in the future... decentralizing it would make the CCSF a bit like a jigsaw puzzle. You'd be at risk of losing pieces. |
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Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
Interesting idea Amaikokonut. I think we would need to have some sort of central download place though, or at least collect everything afterwards, otherwise we risk having most of the stuff missing a few years down the track (say, if everything is uploaded to Mediafire.) |
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Liam |
I think having a coordinator is important for one reason: they make sure that releases will actually happen. The job of the coordinator is to track down developers who are working on projects and prod them repeatedly in order to make sure their release gets finished. I know when I've been coordinator, a bunch of times I've had to step in at the last minute and give someone help to get their project over the line, or give them that bit of encouragement, or spend time with them to ensure it gets done in time. A coordinator ensures that releases get spread out, and don't all occur at the start and end. Without a coordinator, this could be tricky -- even with an open google doc or something like that, it's easier to have just one person organising releases. I think a coordinator is kind of important, but I really like the idea of decentralising it a bit. So... isn't there a middle ground? Releases DO need to be coordinated and overseen in order to have a successful CCSF. But who's to say that we can't decentralise the actual content on the website? Can't we aggregate peoples' blog posts on the CCSF website? If people make posts for their own releases, that makes the effort of coordination a *lot* easier. (That does open the door for late releases etc, but that's not the end of the world!) I think anyone who's coordinated and updated the website can attest to the fact that updating every day is the most difficult part, despite its seeming simplicity. - Liam / K'aeloree Spellhold Studios, a Baldur's Gate II, Neverwinter Nights and Oblivion Modding Community |
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 Sanely Insane RisenAngel Manager |
On not having a coordinator: While it does sound like a valid idea, the last time a CCSF didn't have a coordinator was in 2007. That year's CCSF crashed and burned horribly. I'm not certain how far the community has come since then, so we might be able to pull it off. However, I'm very skeptical of the idea regardless. Risen Angel's Creatures Blog |
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Amaikokonut |
You guys all have valid points. I guess my view on it though is that CCSF isn't all about the site, the data, the releases, the downloadable stuff. It's more about community interaction and activity. Community spirit, after all, rather than "two weeks of downloads." Thus in my view, there's no real need to preserve everything that happened in a central location. To me I guess CCSF ought to be something that we experience rather than archive. On the concerns about it being hard to find, I'll reiterate that CCaves would be a great central hub. We could just have forum threads, one for each day, and when someone released a download, started a contest, wanted to update/remind everyone of an event, they would post it for themselves in that thread. Then if someone wanted to know what happened that day, all they would need to do is read that thread. Having downloads and stuff "go missing" is a problem that we face every day in the community, hence the ever-popular COB detectives thread. I don't think content generated during two certain weeks of the year is somehow more sacred or more likely to be lost than all the other stuff people release. Heck, having it all decentralized would prevent another CCSF'09 incident. I know there's a lot of iffyness around the thought of lack of central leadership, but I'm not entirely certain we need a coordinator to push things along-- not if we go into this with a sense of self-driving responsibility. Maybe I just have more faith in the community than I should, but I think we could do as much to encourage each other as a few overseers could (heck, people could opt to contribute by acting as "cheerleaders" who keep tabs on what goals people are aiming for and nudge them along). A CCSF like this is a challenge, yes, but one that I believe if we pulled off, would strengthen us a lot as community. But again, this is just my view of things. Maybe I'm a bit idealistic Honestly, what sparked this thought process is that last year, I didn't plan on releasing anything for CCSF, I didn't even formally submit anything to the site, I just kind of rode the wave of activity that was going on and found it inspiring enough that I ended up putting out a lot of stuff on the fly. It was honestly the most exciting CCSF I've every been a part of--it felt more like I was really taking part in a festival instead of putting on a school play I had rehearsed all year for. But I totally understand if you guys don't feel the same way. I think whatever we end up deciding though, I'll be participating in the same improvised/spontaneous way I did last year :> [Naturing :: Nurturing] |
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Tea Queen Laura |
On reflection, I can see now that December wouldn't entirely be the best time to have the CCSF, but the idea was fun. All you lucky people who go away for Christmas; I get bored stiff and end up vegetating on the sofa, going braindead in front of crap TV. I really believe co-ordinators are needed though. I wouldn't have as much faith in a CCSF that didn't have any, to be honest. It's a well tried and tested tradition (with enough people onboard to help)! I don't think we'd have as many submissions without some designated volunteers driving the whole event through, rallying people's interest and encouraging them to create. Liam wrote: This was one aspect that I ended up struggling with last year. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed being at the helm, but if AquaShee hadn't of stepped in to assist me on a couple of occasions I don't think the CCSF would've been as successful and as organised. The idea of having just one person run the show seems feasible at the time, but then you forget to take into account LIFE and the responsibilities you have there. I was lucky, I coincidentally had those two weeks booked off work! And Amaikokonut, I actually really enjoyed the fact that your submissions were so improvised and spontaneous last year! For one, it gave me less to stress about when it came to scheduling the releases, because I didn't have to squeeze your stuff in, and plus it was a nice surprise for me everyday! Edit: To reiterate my earlier point though, I worry that the CCSF wouldn't be that successful, or organised, if everyone ended up doing things that way. It's okay if only a few people release their own work spontaneously, but I think it would have to take a huge push to get everyone co-operating and contributing together in that manner. And realistically, is that idea likely to work well in the long run? I'm not that sure... I'm all for designated volunteers to co-ordinate. |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
It seemed clear to me that the '09 incident was something of a special circumstance. Don has all the other CCSF's since 2005 on her domain where they're all "safe". Even '08, the one I hosted, is mirrored on her domain for safekeeping (and you know I don't plan on letting anything happen to BBW). That much just isn't a tradition I would feel comfortable breaking from, because of the security it affords. Agents are a large part of the CCSF for me, especially retroactively--you can't re-enter an old contest or wolfing run, whereas agents have great replayability. I'd want to at least see an "archive" where the CCSF agents were being stored for safekeeping. Downloading everything from one place just seems like a better plan to me than tracking down 15 or 40 different links which may or may not still be available. The one thing I would add about coordinators is that they also help spread things out. If it were entirely up to the community, you would be more likely to see ten releases on Saturday, one (or none) on Monday, more releases toward the end of the festival, etc., whereas a coordinator keeps them from "clumping". Laura really did a fantastic job last year of balancing release dates, especially with so many new metarooms to fit in. |
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Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
After some consideration, I'm happy to volunteer, although we definitely need more than one person. Would it be any use starting a thread calling for volunteers? Edit: To reiterate my earlier point though, I worry that the CCSF wouldn't be that successful, or organised, if everyone ended up doing things that way. It's okay if only a few people release their own work spontaneously, but I think it would have to take a huge push to get everyone co-operating and contributing together in that manner. And realistically, is that idea likely to work well in the long run? I'm not that sure... I'm all for designated volunteers to co-ordinate. Also, agreeing with this, and Ghosthande's post above mine. |
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Tea Queen Laura |
I think you'd make a good co-ordinator, ylukyun. You were one of the people I suggested in the survey. Ghosthande wrote: Which brings me to a tip for this year's co-ordinator(s): make a spreadsheet or table using a program like Microsoft Excel or similar. They're easy to edit and make the job of scheduling the releases, events and contests a less confusing and daunting task, because you can see at a glance how the CCSF will be planned out, and swap and move things around at a whim. Liam wrote: |
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 Jessica |
I'm always willing to volunteer to help out with anything! Might not be a bad idea to figure out who would like to volunteer, though. I've had a crazy month or two, and I'm sure things come up for everyone from time to time. I think you'd make a good coordinator, though, Ylukyun! I'm pretty sure I should start brainstorming some contributions for this year, since I take forever to finish some things up... And forgetfulness is my strong suit sometimes. Ha ha! |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
No problem Laura. I remember thinking that it was hard to nail down an order for the 2008 submissions, and there were only like 14 releases that year. |
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 Don |
I think we need a list of people who will volunteer that we can vote for too next time, so we don't miss anyone out and I agree there needs to be two co-ordinators as there's a lot to check, chase up and write. I can set up the site again though, or host. Don AmberCreatures  |
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Tea Queen Laura |
I wouldn't mind co-odinating again, if someone else (like Ylukyun, for example) is there to help out and share the role! Of course, I know I've already had a go, and despite wanting to volunteer, I'd rather give someone else a chance first. |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
I agree with Don. It makes more sense to let people volunteer rather than trying to recommend them, since you can't easily anticipate who will want to coordinate, or who will have the time. |
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Liam |
I'd love to volunteer to help out organising releases, as that tends to be what I'm best at  - Liam / K'aeloree Spellhold Studios, a Baldur's Gate II, Neverwinter Nights and Oblivion Modding Community |
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Don |
Maybe there could even be three co-ordinators.. There's no real need to limit it to two if enough people are capable and willing, as long as whoever runs it is able to delegate to the other two, and they work well together. Don AmberCreatures |
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 Feddlefew |
This year I'd like to see more plant-type agents. Potted plants, plants with life cycles, plants that can be anchored in one place... Even parts of agents, like natural-looking flowers, fruit, seeds, and food items that could be used with the garden box when it eventually comes out would be great. I have a thing against vendors because either creatures never use them, or they push them until there's a massive pile of food that's never going be eaten. |
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Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
The survey is now closed. Thanks to everyone who participated. The results and a new survey should be up in a couple of days |
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Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
Here's the collected data. I'm honestly not sure what to do with it at this point, if I should create another survey or not. |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
Yeah, the recent talk of letting people volunteer kinda throws that aspect of the survey into question... how to proceed, maybe starting a thread to ask who wants to volunteer? But for the other details, another survey could help. I see more than a few suggestions about having contests and challenges, for instance. Another survey might help determine which kinds of contests/challenges people would be most interested in. It could also help to let people vote on the suggested themes, too, given how many there are. It could narrow things down a bit. Actually it might need a bit of consolidation before voting too. :S But it looks like there were something like 18 votes for having the same kind of site, compared to just 5 for a blog and 2 for a regular web page. I do think having the same kind of site makes sense... especially with people saying they want reliable download hosting. The blog option was the reason we didn't have that in 2009.And 16 votes for the CCSF being two weeks long. That's more than all the other suggestions combined, wow! I think there are a few suggestions we can safely rule out. There were three votes for having the CCSF in June, but it's June now, and July is just around the corner. Fortunately it looks like most people voted for either November (10 votes) or October (which has 12 votes, if you include the votes for Halloween). Voting to have the CCSF during/after the release of Creatures 4 is also a bit dubious, since we don't know when it's coming out, and some suspect it will be released for Christmas. You really can't fit a 2-week CCSF after Christmas. I suspect many people will be AFK around that time anyways... and do we really want to wait that long? Seriously though, great job on the survey so far! |
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Liam |
I don't think specifying everything in advance via surveys is necessarily the best way to go; let the coordinators have some creative input and own the CCSF - Liam / K'aeloree Spellhold Studios, a Baldur's Gate II, Neverwinter Nights and Oblivion Modding Community |
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Tea Queen Laura |
That's what I did last year; took the results from just one survey and went from there. And it all turned out just fine! |
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 Malkin Manager |
Just as a thought (and a BUMP)... the advantage of having a central site and a coordinator is that more people can contribute, it makes it easier just to email something to someone with a promo screenie, and let the coordinator sort out which day it should go on. The only time I've advocated for a particular day was perhaps in the 2004 CCSF... where everyone released on the last day... (whoops) and the 2009 CCSF, because my stunning artwork (hah) was inspired by C1, and there was a historical event relating to C1 on that day years ago. My TCR Norns |
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 Caves Dweller Rascii Administrator |
So what's the current status of CCSF 2012? Has the timeframe/coordinator been decided since the C4 delay was announced? - Rascii |
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Liam |
Well, the way I was imagining it one coordinator would handle the releases + the timing thereof, so there would still be one email and one point of contact for developers. - Liam / K'aeloree Spellhold Studios, a Baldur's Gate II, Neverwinter Nights and Oblivion Modding Community |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
So how are we going to determine who the coordinators are? Just asking, since the sooner we know, the sooner we can start sending things in |
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