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 TigerCivet  |
I couldn't say it in a better way. 100% agree, unfortunately.. |
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 Jessica  |
I was rather surprised by a quote from the developers that was posted on the Creatures Online Facebook page in regards to third-party development: "Despite the free-to-play nature of #Creatures and the obvious implications of that on the "opening the game" to the community, we would love in the future to get around to having some form of support of user-created content. We've always been straightforward about the fact that when the game is released we will hear the community about the direction it wants the game to go to. All options are open really (for instance we've thought about the "team fortress" kind of moderated user generated content) but ultimately the evolution will likely follow the will of the community. It's hard for us to bet on support for modding that will maybe only interest 1% of the players considering we don't have the resource to be as big as, say, Little Big Planet. We'll gladly do it though if we see there's an overwhelming number of players that want it" I understand what they're saying, but the fact that they said that modding might only interest 1% of the players seems like a really low number. Guess they're thinking their main audience is new players who won't want to mod, or very young users who wouldn't be able to mod? Just thought that percentage stood out. Guess we'll see what happens, but they might be in for a surprise since many people have been asking for third-party content support since the beginning! |
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 AthenaTrixl |
I think, they're banking on many more users playing CO than just us (relatively small) group of long-term lovers from back in the day, and so the priority falls on the majority (i.e. NOT us). These app / Facebook games are like junk food - a LOT of players who like the game, vesus fewer players who hardcore LOVE the game. I know that's a term I've used more than once here at this point, but it's a serious reason I don't think they're too bothered about modding. You can't mod on Farmville and it's ilk, can you? And Creatures has been knocked down to that level of gaming - which is fantastic news for BB/FC, and heartbreaking for a long-term Creatures lover like me. I'm probably rambling nonsense about this, and I do apologize. I play a handful of smartphone app games, and I'm upset that my most treasured childhood game has become one. |
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 Zweitausend |
The norns look cute and all, but I'm not letting myself get pushed into facebook again. It's likely going to be a free-to-wait/pay-to-win game, anyway. That being said, I'm still excited about where this game will be going in time. |
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 Abzu |
Them saying it might only interest 1% is kind of disgusting, are they overshooting how many NEW fans they'll get? Majority of people who would even probably stay playing are the hardcore creature fans.  |
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 Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
One percent is just supposed to be an example here, not a computer-calculated estimation meant to be taken literally. Although it might not be as farfetched as you think. Either way the point is still the same. How much of CO's fanbase will be existing Creatures players, and how many fans will be new to the series entirely? I would guess that there are maybe two hundred active Creatures fans right now, so that depends on how popular CO ends up being: even if it only has 2,000 players and all 200-ish current fans are included in that number, we'll still only make up like 10% of the fanbase. If it has 4,000 players we'll only make up about 5%. And so on. And if all the people complaining that it looks like a "kiddie game" are correct and it ends up attracting a lot of very young members, including children, then how many of the new fans will want to mod the game--at least on the same level of complexity and depth that we would expect?  |
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 Code Monkey evolnemesis |
They seem to be somewhat concerned with older players concerns, they are working to put modding and user-created content in the game at least in some form, which is impressive enough considering the server-based architecture and the free-to-play business model they are working with. As well, they seem to be putting a lot of effort into the genetics and biochemistry side of the creatures themselves, and are putting many complex and interesting kinds of features in. I will reserve judgement until I see the finished product, but so far, the developers have seemed to be pretty open and available to discuss the concerns of fans of the series, and really seem receptive to do whatever they can within the constraints of the hardware and specifications they have been given for the game to keep it still feeling as much as possible like the creatures series we know and love. "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
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 Malkin Manager |
The developers implemented an ecosystem because we argued for it. ![[ngrin]](/images/smilies/emot_grin.gif "[ngrin]") My TCR Norns |
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 Puddini |
In the Alpha Livestream they showed a Sience/Health/Injection (i forgot the name) Kit and it had a lot of buttons for all these biochemistry things. That shows it won't get dumbed down. |
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 Norn_master |
So does this mean we have a release date now that there is a beta coming soon? I got my credit card standing by, and room on my iPad. Just take my money already! It’s a me! Dvader0086 from the’a Discord! |
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 LoverIan |
Jessica wrote: Older post I know, but my feelings on the modding that a good 20% should at least be interested in modding. I'd say the old fans about 45% are modding interested. I think why Creatures had so many modders as a series, is because they made the content so open, and they made from my understanding, CAOS and PRAY really easy to learn. beep |
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Jessica |
This is from the newest CO update. All I can say is... What? I guess I can see some applications for this, but I'm not sure how this will allow for all sorts of mutations. Maybe they're referring to OHSS, though, like someone in the forum pointed out. That's something that deserves updating! I'm just unsure how rolling out a genome update that affects behavior will change existing Norns. This week we worked on a tool to ensure the Norn genomes will be modified like it should in case of a genome update. It means that if a game update changes the way the Norn behave, we should be able to “update” the already present Norns too. It was a bit tricky, and we still have some work to do on it. |
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 Manic Scribbler razander |
I wonder if maybe it'll be used for holidays or other special events too? Like hey, it's Valentine's Day, so all the norns are a bit friendlier... |
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 Siinamon |
So basically they can update the genomics of everything retroactively, so that there aren't strangely bred behaviors from 'old version' and 'new version' norns. Neat, but at the same time, messes with mah brain xD Razander, I could see it being used for that, but I can also see the main reason for it being to correct any genetic bugs without having to worry about 'wipe and redo' that some games have to do. |
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 Caves Dweller Rascii Administrator |
I would just like to point out that it's now been three years since the Creatures 4 announcement article was published, which sparked this thread being started by GreenReaper. ![:\](/images/smilies/confused.gif ":\") - Rascii |
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 Tea Queen Laura |
Three YEARS?  |
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AthenaTrixl |
Originally dubbed "Creatures 2011", and it's now 2014 and even their own forum is eaten by spambot posts rather than being a bustling hub of anticipating Creatures fans. At this point it seems that even they don't care enough to have a moderated forum. Updates are lax, and any updates that do come through only serve to solidify my feeling that this is indeed going to be an absolute disaster. Anyone catch wind of the new "Dungeon Keeper" app game? Developers getting their hands on a deeply cherished old game only to turn it into a shoddy app? Remind you of anything? If this ever DOES get released, at this point my only hope is that it might enrage fans to the point where people will work on creating a Creatures game that actually does it justice. |
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gusmat10 |
Is the game slated to be f2p? It may not be a bad idea but dungeon keeper tried to reboot that way and one of the most respected strategy franchises was turned to a bit of a joke! - I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror like his passengers. Jim Harkins |
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 jcnorn |
Though Dungeon Keeper was remade by EA, one of the most money-hungry studios in the current world. Fishing Cactus I believe have their hearts intact still  I'm still positive this will be a good game! It might not be exceptionally awesome like the original series, but I think it will still be a good game. |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
Hah, yeah, I don't think EA is a very good basis for comparison for other companies, especially small companies. More like an example of an "apocalyptic worst case scenario", IMO... |
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 Soloon |
EA *did* get voted the most evil company in the world one year...I think the second one on the list was Bank of America in the middle of its corruption scandal, for comparison. to be fair I'm like 90% sure that was the year Mass Effect 3 came out and everyone was so terribly angry about the ending. |
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jcnorn |
Everyone are always angry whenever EA releases a new game though, the only time I don't have tables flip and frustrated hairpulling are when they release the sports-games like Fifa and them. |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
Sometimes they have a right to be. EA keeps churning out broken content and expect people to pay large sums of money for games that don't work. ![[nblank]](/images/smilies/emot_blank.gif "[nblank]") Maybe their fan communities have spoiled them with all their fanmade patches. *cough*I suppose that's one advantage for games that can't be modded by their fans: the developers have to be willing to fix their own problems if anyone is going to keep playing the games. |
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jcnorn |
A very good example of that is Sims, so much custom content that is needed to really enjoy the game. Like the Story Progression MOD X.X Hopefully this won't happen with CO, Fishing Cactus seems very determined to make it as bug-free as possible. It can never be completely bug-free, since it's near impossible to squash all of them, but I have faith in them  |
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 Sonicfan2525 |
Comparing Fishing Cactus to EA is like comparing a butterfly to a rabid bear XD. One thing I can definitely praise Fishing Cactus for is that they listen to the fans and appear to be trying their hardest to please us while also bringing in new players. That is very commendable and respectable on their part. EA could care less about the people who play their games as all they want is money and nothing more. As for how I feel about the game right now, I am mixed but trying to be optimistic. I love Sphericus and its environments, the charm of the art style, all of the little nods and references to the older games and I love that it is still just as complex as the previous games. It still is, at its core, a Creatures game and it certainly looks and feels like a sequel to Creatures 3. Its just that all of the "free to play" nonsense and having to constantly be online is really putting me off. I really shouldn't have to use coins to feed my Norns a cookie or to inject an emergency chemical that could save their lives. If you took that away, it think none of us would have any reason to worry. https://images.khinsider.com/Graphics/Signatures/riku111.jpg "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay... small acts of kindness and love." - Gandalf the Grey in "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey" |
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 exiledcole |
Sooooo, is all the food behind pay walls, or just random cookies? How bad are the time walls in this game? Do you have to wait minutes, days, or hours for a new egg to hatch without paying? My biggest hope now, is the fact that they changed the name to Creatures Online instead of Creatures 4...because it's not exactly the true sequel to the series. Perhaps there are plans in the works to make a different Creatures game to use the Creatures 4 title? Just a theory, unless they have stated otherwise why they changed the name. tl;dr I'm salty and pessimistic :_( |
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 ShadowGammaD |
can't wait to see how it works as well, have played a lot of free to play and also with pay options. can hit the free player wall a lot. not that don't think someone should be paid for hard work(extra art etc). just that there should be methods for free players to earn if they invest enough time +energy. ppl will still cash because not everyone has that much time and energy lol and has work to do +likes skipping past barriers free players have A knight is sworn to valour His heart knows only virtue His blade defends the helpless His might upholds the weak His word speaks only truth His wrath undoes the wicked. ~Dragon Heart (By wrath I mean the edit button lol) Can Contact me on twitter if need https://twitter.com/ShadowGammaD Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/shadowgammadraco |
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Code Monkey evolnemesis |
Regarding something more like a Creatures 4... Steve Grand has been working on a real, very ambitious spiritual successor to the series, currently called 'Grandroids' as a working title, though the finished project might have a different name. It will feature much more advanced biochemistry and genetics, and brains even having what Grand calls imagination... Creatures that are incredibly complex down to having a full set of musculature controlled by their learning brains (the brains literally go down to the level of controlling each of their eye muscles so they can follow movement, and manipulating all of their muscles for walking... They learn balance and how to walk exactly like real baby animals), these brains can think of possible actions, envision outcomes of those actions and make decisions based on those... coming up with ideas intuitively like real conscious beings... It's all pretty crazy and exciting stuff I can't wait to get my hands on. He's still kind of in the middle of development though so it could be quite some time. His kickstarter project did well though. But to me, that is the true sequel I have been waiting for. CO looks okay, and it will have its place I think, it seems to a pretty good mobile adaptation of the ideas of the series, with a decent amount of the cool stuff you would expect from a Creatures game... but it's definitely not the real expansion and continuation of the series I would expect from a 'Creatures 4', especially after all this time with all the new technology available. "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
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exiledcole |
Yeah I've looked at the Grandroids stuff before. That is a bold challenge he has given himself. I never understood why this type of game hasn't garnered more attention in scientific communities. I've tried to get my friends to understand how in depth the creatures series is compared to what it might look like on the surface. |
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Code Monkey evolnemesis |
A lot of it sounds like magic to me, but if anyone can do it, he can... He is a real pioneer at the forefront of the study of the field of AI and A-life. He's an inpiration to me... I've always been interested in these kinds of questions about artificial life and sentience... Even an experiment into a-life like Creatures, something that he did over 20 years ago, has hardly been matched by anyone else to this day. He's got some really cutting edge ideas, and from his progress blogs and what I've seen of his early demos, it really looks like a lot of them are coming together in an amazing way. Who knows, a creation of his might someday take over skynet and rule over us all... "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
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 Dienes |
Frankly, I'd be shocked if a non-beta version of Grandroids is released. He's promising too much with too little budget/expertise. Its kinda like Star Citizen, but for Creatures. |
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 GimmeCat |
Budget, maybe. Expertise though? Do you even know who he is? x) |
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Dienes |
GimmeCat wrote: Let me rephrase: he needs a very large, coordinated team with significant expertise. He has the vision and the skills, but he can hardly do it himself. And what he is proposing is more complicated than any of his previous projects. It may be beyond even him. |
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Tea Queen Laura |
I think this discussion is starting to veer off-topic now. Please feel free to start a new topic to discuss Grandroids in, but this one is supposed to be about Creatures Online. |
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 xan |
asking 'is creatures 4 out yet' and frantically checking the site has become a weekly-to-biweekly tradition in my household. So has 'creatures 4 is vaporware, riot'. This has gone on for several years. :S I've honestly been tempted, in a sort of what-if dream sense, to start something in Unity, if I had the sanity or the time for it. At least then it would be guaranteed moddable... |
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