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Development Forum Pigment Bleed    Lurhstaap        3/22/2016 I'm not sure I understand the point of pigment bleed. As I understand, all it does is either rotate the color through the RGB color space, or do a concrete swap of red to blue, or a bit of both. If that's the case, any color that can be achieved through use of the bleed options can be achieved through the use of the simple RGB color genes alone - and more easily to boot. So what's the point of having them? Is it just to allow color mutations to be more common or something like that? Or is there something it does that I'm missing? Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"   Sanely Insane RisenAngel Manager     3/22/2016 The main difference is in the appearance of the color. Colors provided purely by the pigment genes just apply a filter effect, while pigment bleed genes shift the colors of the base sprite around a little without drastically effecting the shading. The latter tends to look much more "natural" than the former most of the time. It's a bit difficult to describe through words, so have some pictures: Compare this (Mostly pigment genes) to this (Mostly pigment bleed genes). It can be pretty worthwhile to combine both; you can make it so a grendel has blue eyes but still has red scales, for example. ~ The Realm ~ Risen Angel's Creatures Blog   Wrong Banshee Dragoler     3/22/2016 Using regular pigment genes works like a sort of filter adding that colour over all of the creature's sprites. Pigment bleed and swap genes rotate the colour wheel, making different colours on the creatures sprites change in different ways. In my opinion, bleeds and swaps look much more aesthetically pleasing, ESPECIALLY used on Draconians! For example, using bleeds and swaps you could swap green for blue and yellow for green. (I think, it could also be green to red then yellow to green, one of those two.) The colouration for these was made using swaps and bleeds. Creator of the TWB/TCB genome base.   Sanely Insane RisenAngel Manager     3/22/2016 In addition, there are certain effects only possible through pigment bleed genes. This is one such effect. You will need at least nine pigment bleed genes to a lifestage to achieve this effect, however. In DS this isn't such a problem, but in C3 standalone where you need pigment/pigment bleed genes for each lifestage for a creature to maintain its color you need a lot of pigment bleed genes, which can affect crossbreeding compatibility. ~ The Realm ~ Risen Angel's Creatures Blog   Lurhstaap     3/22/2016 Wow! I had no idea that was possible. That is exceptionally cool. And it means the preview I've been using has been totally lying to me because it makes the changes look as if they're identical color-overlay changes like with pigment. Fascinating. I'll have to experiment with that. EDIT: Does that apply to C1 and C2 as well? EDIT II: And here's another coloration-related question. I noticed in my CFF Chichi wolflings that several of the later gens seemed to have different spots than the earlier ones. Specifically, they appeared faded out and a bit more orange in color. Most normal Chichis have pretty clear yellow spots, but some of these individuals barely appeared spotted at all. Now, mind, this was AFTER I sat down and spent about half an hour searching through all the living Norns and exporting anything with a pigment or bleed mutation of any sort. (I plan to isolate them later on in another world for natural-color-mutation breeding.) So everything in the world was all pure 128 for both pigment and bleed. Is this a normal thing for Chichis and I just never noticed it before, or is there some other factor that affects appearance? Both males and females appeared to be affected so I know it's not a dimorphism thing. Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"   Code Monkey evolnemesis   3/22/2016 The spots change a lot with age... the spots are definitely different colors between the sexes too. There's nothing else really that could be doing it that I know of, spot appearance and color is based entirely just on the particular age and sex's breed sprites and the individual's color genes. If ALL the color genes had nothing but 128 in values, you should just be looking at the normal appearance of the base breed sprites. "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan   Lurhstaap     3/22/2016 Ahh, I see. It's probably an age thing, then, since I noticed it on a couple of adolescents. I guess they must develop the spots as they age. Interesting. Thanks for that! Incidentally I made some gorgeous grendels using only bleed gene changes - you guys are right, it does look better than pigment gene changes. I will definitely be working more with bleed from now on. Grateful to have been enlightened! Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"   Sanely Insane RisenAngel Manager     3/22/2016 Purely pigment changes in C1 and C2 are a lot more subdued and generally more natural looking than C3/DS. Pigment bleed genes in C2 are about the same as C3/DS's, but Pigment Bleed genes in C1 just crash the game. ~ The Realm ~ Risen Angel's Creatures Blog   Lurhstaap     3/22/2016  1 Crash the game? Odd. I remember fooling with them when I was young and not having crashing issues, but then again I never noticed they DID anything either, hence my enduring puzzlement regarding them. XD Do you know what causes the crashing, just out of curiosity? Although I have to say I was always dissatisfied with the pigment changes in C1 as a kid. They may have been relatively natural-looking but I always wanted more vivid colors. On the other hand C3DS Norns are generally pretty vivid to start with so they suffer less from the need for visual stimulation to begin with. Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"   Sanely Insane RisenAngel Manager     3/22/2016  1 I just tested it again now, and I got a C1 grendel with pigment bleed genes in my world without it crashing. However, it doesn't look like the genes are doing anything, as you said. Huh. Either way, I think pigment bleed genes were a feature that weren't finished in time for the game's release and so were dummied out. Might have to do some more intensive testing later on. ~ The Realm ~ Risen Angel's Creatures Blog   Lurhstaap     3/22/2016 Probably so. Would've been significantly more difficult to do back then anyway if I understand the underlying technology correctly. Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"   MuppetBoy     5/31/2025 Any update on how pigment bleed can work in c1? I'm considering adding them to my genome, but am not exactly sure whot they work, despite lots of tests.   Lurhstaap     6/14/2025 Alas, not from my end I'm afraid. AFAIK they simply don't function in C1, though admittedly it's been a long time since I experimented with it. I'll have to get a copy of C1 Genetics Kit and poke at it just to see if I can figure them out this time. But honestly all the games have little odds and ends that were planned but deprecated for one reason or another. Like there are some genes in C3/DS that don't do anything. Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"   Wrong Banshee Dragoler     6/14/2025  1 Someone was able to get them working through hex editing. https://creaturescaves.com/forum.php?view=12&thread=7781 Creator of the TWB/TCB genome base.   Lurhstaap     6/15/2025  1 Oh hey, that's hella cool! Thanks for the link. Very interesting indeed! Never tried using a hex editor before so I'm a bit intimidated by the idea but I'm also super curious. Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"   Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager   6/15/2025 I used a genome editor that has a built in hex editing function - best of both worlds. You could also just use bedalton's Quick Appearance Editor from the linked thread.

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