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 Sonicfan2525   |
Hello everyone! Its been months since I was last on the forum or I have ever really done anything related to the Creatures community besides reading updates on Creatures Online. Just wanna say that no matter how many times I uninstall Creatures or leave, I always find myself coming back to this wonderful game series and fan base. Anyways, something occurred to me today while listening to the soundtrack to Creatures 2. Back when Creatures was created, it was praised by both critics and audiences as being innovative, different, and smart. It basically defined the artificial life genre (seeing there weren't many games like it at the time). So why is it that a game that was so praised seems to have been completely forgotten with time and its only love seems to come from its fan base (and Fishing Cactus of course)? There have been plenty of other games that are still remembered and they are just as old, if not older, than Creatures. Just something that I had on my mind and I wanted to hear you guys opinions on it. Sorry if this has already been addressed in another forum topic. https://images.khinsider.com/Graphics/Signatures/riku111.jpg "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay... small acts of kindness and love." - Gandalf the Grey in "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey" |
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 For Science! InsanityPrelude |
Less advertising? A somewhat "niche" genre? Bad luck? |
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Sonicfan2525 |
InsanityPrelude wrote: All of those are possibilities. Though you still think it would be remembered by more people if it was such a big deal. Its depressing when you type in Creatures 2 or Creatures Docking Station on places like Youtube or eBay to get results that range from Nightmare Creatures to crappy educational PC games. https://images.khinsider.com/Graphics/Signatures/riku111.jpg "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay... small acts of kindness and love." - Gandalf the Grey in "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey" |
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 Missmysterics |
Though it was a big deal in people who reviewed it, I guess it wasn't quite enough to sway the audience. Firstly, virtual pets have an image problem. Even worse than with children's TV shows -those that put characterization and good art before education (and before a cheap gag or gimmick) can be very popular with adults. If you think of the virtual pet equivalent though, how many other virtual pets do you know of that put their artificial intelligence and art design above a simple gimmick? Petz arguably? Unfortunately the image problem is largely deserved. Secondly,lack of advertisement. The Creatures series lacks similar products. Catering to existing market is safe,because people will search for products like yours. People don't search for virtual pets with learning AI because as far as they know, they don't exist. Thirdly, flaws in the games. All the worlds were a bit barren without third-party materials,the vast majority of food and toys were placed in the 'starting area' and there wasn't quite enough to go around Albia or the Shee Ark -you had to take things where your creatures went. It's no surprise people call Creatures 1 in the series, no creature-confusing Cob classifications or deathtraps as far as I can see, probably helps that there's less to go wrong. Creatures 2 was very unfinished, it's buggy, and the creatures had a flaw in their genetics which gave them OHSS. Different cobs of the same kind had different properties, confusing for a creature. This game also had very awkward world design, like the volcano the grendel always gets trapped in and dies. I can honestly see why this particular installment could put people off. Creatures 3 and DS have these issues as well, not nearly as notable, but it's there, like the large empty spaces, the ecosystems that always die, the agents of the same kind with different properties, the genomes were unfinished as well. I think we kind of forget about it in our online community full of add-ons. |
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 geckogirl191 |
It's these kind of imperfections that cause games like this to quickly grab positive attention from people, only to be just as quickly dropped when it all tides over. This has happened to many a PC games i've played in my childhood, not just the truly nostalgic ones. Educational games tend to be forgotten very quickly because of them being marketed towards children and not really being considered "games" per se. It's also very ironic that terrible games (especially laughably terrible ones) tend to be more often remembered than games that are genuinely good. |
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 Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
Missmysterics wrote: This, I think, is a big reason. The bugs, and the fact that the games have always been notoriously difficult to get working on newer systems. Re-releases have been sporadic and couldn't keep up with changes in technology, so when people bought a new computer, they just gave up on the games and gradually forgot about them. Same with people who bought one of the games (probably C2) and had it crash constantly. It's just not worth the time or effort, so they put it in the closet and left it, usually unaware that there were bug fixes or other games in the series (how many people had internet access in 1998 compared to 2014?) |
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Sonicfan2525 |
All of these are good points. We, as a community, have created so many wonderful add-ons and patches so games like Creatures 2 are pretty easy to overlook when it comes to their flaws in the original release. I think the lack of advertising did have an effect on that too. I think a majority of Creatures advertising was done in gaming magazines, and even then the articles on them weren't very large. I guess it just bothers me that a game series as wonderful and inventive as Creatures would be forgotten and thrown aside so easily. That is why it makes me so happy to know that people like the people at Fishing Cactus know how special the series is, and want to let it live on. Creatures Online I hope will be another wonderful chapter in the franchise and I hope it will attract many new comers. https://images.khinsider.com/Graphics/Signatures/riku111.jpg "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay... small acts of kindness and love." - Gandalf the Grey in "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey" |
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geckogirl191 |
I remember that Creatures Adventures and Creatures Playground were advertised several times in educational games catalogues. Then again, both games were geared specifically towards children. Despite the fact that i got Creatures 2 as a Christmas present back in elementary, i have yet to see any clear advertising for any of its successors, let alone the game itself before i even got it. The only way i knew of there being another follow-up was by visiting Creature Labs' website. If it weren't for my parents also showing affection for the game, i would've never gotten Creatures 3 in the first place. |
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 KittyTikara  |
I think Creatures lives on in back of many peoples' minds. I myself didn't really play the games as a kid. The only one I played was the PS1 version and I quickly grew bored of it. The weirdness of it did make me Google it years later though, and I eventually found myself enjoying the basic DS... for about two weeks then I forgot about it again. DS by it's self is terribly boring though. Very rarely, I sometimes see references to Creatures on other websites. A year or so ago, a person at the Kotaku website wrote an article about her playing Creatures as a kid. Plus just yesterday someone in the Starbound subreddit mention Creatures when suggesting an addition to the game, and they seemed to be inspired by the breeding and genetics side of Creatures. So maybe Creatures is still rattling around in peoples' heads? The Mobula Ray - My Creatures blog |
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Sonicfan2525 |
I would have never have known about it myself my parents didn't happen to have a friend who liked computer games. She got me a bunch of virtual pets games for the PC (Catz and Dogz and so on), and she got me Creatures 1 about a few months after it came out. I played it more than any of the other games she bought me, and I played 2, then 3, and eventually played Docking Station and the Adventure games. But I have heard a lot of gaming magazines advertised the series (At least the main series PC games). I'm surprised to hear that people actually still acknowledge its existence on places like Kotaku! I never knew that. Maybe a lot of people do remember it, but just aren't vocal about it because its more like a childhood memory than it is a revolutionary product to them. Still, as I stated earlier, maybe Creatures Online will bring a lot of people back to the series and bring a lot of new fans too. https://images.khinsider.com/Graphics/Signatures/riku111.jpg "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay... small acts of kindness and love." - Gandalf the Grey in "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey" |
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KittyTikara |
Here's the article itself in case any one wants to read it. I found it to be an interesting read. I'm... trying to not get my hopes up with Creatures Online. I just want it to be a decent entry into the series, and for Fishing Cactus to at least make back the money they've spent on it. It would be cool if it brought some people to the community though. The Mobula Ray - My Creatures blog |
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Razgriz |
It would help if you mentioned what kind of similarly aged series you're referring to. A lot of the older games and series I see mentioned usually tend to be games with a storyline and for people who played said games as kids, some parts of those plots would've left some sort of impact on them. For example, the Fallout series is roughly around or a bit younger than Creatures and is one of the older games series mentioned quite often. While I do wish Creatures got some recognition and the like, in a few ways I can understand why it isn't getting that. As for CO, well I'm just hoping it's fair in regards to micro-transactions and brings in some fresh mea---errr, people. |
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Sonicfan2525 |
Razgriz wrote: Fallout was one. I was also thinking series like The Elder Scrolls or Sonic the Hedgehog (though Sonic is a bit of an icon at this point so it kinda makes sense). I mean, when it comes down to it, a lot of people aren't into the whole virtual life genre even if its revolutionary like Creatures is. I just wish it had a LOT more recognition and that it would often be looked back at as a genre defining title or one of the games that helped make gaming what it is today. https://images.khinsider.com/Graphics/Signatures/riku111.jpg "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay... small acts of kindness and love." - Gandalf the Grey in "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey" |
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 Small Birb Pann |
I didn't know about Creatures until I was about 12 years old, and a younger friend of mine was given a copy of the PS1 Creatures game. I'd never seen any commercials for it on TV, but maybe as a little kid if I'd seen them, I would have wanted to try playing. We also didn't really have a decent computer back then that did anything big. When me and my friend played the PS1 version, he grew quickly bored of it, but I was still interested, and that's only how I found out about the PC games a few years later. So I agree, it was very obscure and hidden in the shadows. But I do hope more people will learn about it with Creatures Online! Small bird who lives here sometimes, and wanders other times. Got Creatures related content to share? Submit to Heck Yeah, Creatures! Icon by gettehld on twitter! |
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 Norn_master |
Personally the annoying thing about creatures 2 as opposed to 1 for me was the water. The mechanic is still there in C3, but I know better by now. I would leave the computer and come back only to find that my creature had gone for a swim in the ocean. Quite often they died. Specially when they got near the volcano. What I remember was the C2 frog norns and how they could go from being a frog, to breed with a C2 creature, and go back to being a frog. I loved that. I loved that you could give birth to a frog norn after breeding too. It was probably around 12 as well for C1 (Creatures had just come out and was in a magazine review. I got it for my birthday that year I think.) and didn't play C2 till high school around 2005 or so. Course I am turning 28 next month. The nice thing about C2 tho is they paved the way for mernorns addons in C2 and C3. We now have Meta-rooms devoted to underwater completely. Edit: I did a quick search on the creatures wiki, and even here cause I was interested in finding my beloved frog norns for DS or C3. I haven't tried C2 to DS yet, but hopefully my frog norns will be there. * hint hint* It’s a me! Dvader0086 from the’a Discord! |
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For Science! InsanityPrelude |
It always bugged me how C2 doesn't really give you a middle ground between "block off the oceans completely" and "lose norns every time you turn your back". The bodies of water in C3/DS are much less annoying. Anyway, long as we're sharing our "how I found out about the games" stories, I'd never heard of Creatures until my grandma gave me her copy (and the strategy guide) when I was... eight or nine? I was instantly hooked, and I think it helped spark my interest in biology. Honestly, though, I suspect they'd have kind of a niche audience even if they were advertised. A-life just isn't a "mainstream" genre. Maybe I'm being harsh, but it wouldn't surprise me if people looked at it, especially the science kits, and went "this is too complex"/"too technical for me". Or else "what's the point?" but in that case virtual pets just aren't the genre for them even without the a-life aspects. ![[nlaugh]](/images/smilies/emot_laugh.gif "[nlaugh]") |
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 MisterPeaches |
A couple people I know have played it a little when they were younger but couldn't put a title to the game until I mentioned what the game was like. I've even sent some GOG copies to them to try out, but it never really stuck with them. I think it's a "different strokes for different folks" sort of game that can be hit or miss with a lot of people so it's kind of relegated to the niche. When I was younger I actually remember being scared by it and refusing to play it for the longest time, haha. (The graveyard and Grendels were frightening to me.) Essentially what I'm saying is that some people are going to find it inaccessible. It requires a lot of patience and modding. with a taste of your lips  i'm on a ride |
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Norn_master |
MisterPeaches wrote: Aye. My version was in a different box. It came brick shaped box, (You could fit a medium size canister in there. From the top to the bottom was longer, and from side to side matched the top of the box where you opened it.) with a color on the manual cover and two CD roms. I gave one to a friend, and he told me he played it. I got the feeling tho that that was a different stroke for him. I still play the game after all these years, I am excited about a release for my iOS (can't find where to get it now in the apple store) It may be old software, but all my memories of it, going to the place of the evil shee, modding C1 with Liz Morris's alternative world, will be memories I will cherish. Modding DS can be a pain. C1 won't work with C2 right now.  But if I keep them in separate worlds they will. That has always been the dream for me. Being able to take C1, C2, C3 and DS and let the norns interact with one another. Being able to take a C3 norn to the C1 world, then to the C2 world, then off to C3 again. Creatures was created back in 1996 I believe, and in 2012 was 15 years of creatures. This "niche" has a 15 year strong fan-base. In 2016 it will be 20 years.It’s a me! Dvader0086 from the’a Discord! |
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 Jacob |
probs never kicked off too well because creatures belongs to a pretty niche market, combined with the fact the simulation market had other big entries in it like the sims etc which had a much wider appeal than creatures did (the whole fact that you were simulating humans rather than furry aliens kind of has that effect) i think what might've been the biggest issue however was the sheer lack of support the series got post-CL, sadly it must've been pretty financially unviable to support the series and pump new entries into it, or even to just expand what was there. of course this means there's no new life consistently pumping into the community, rather there were just people who played it every now and then who just got used to the close knit community after a while. idk, i think these next few months will be very telling for the future of the series as a whole, and if the series does take a drastic new direction or not. Not really active around these parts anymore. |
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 Code Monkey evolnemesis |
Yeah, I think you are right there... Sims got a lot more support from the manufacturer afterwards, and they created a lot of content for it off the bat as well, you could mod your sims appearance and environment quite a lot just with the included tools and in-game shop, while with creatures this kind of modification was quite technical and pretty much left entirely to the community and modders. Even bugfixes were left to the community after a while. Creature Labs did make some life packs, and some objects and new breeds, but it was not really financially viable for them to make very much and keep it going, like you said. A-Life and virtual pets is more of a niche thing, and especially with Creatures, a lot of people didn't get or didn't care about the realism factor of the biochemistry and genetics and learning brains technical side of it, sadly... Because of this hardship in finding a market, creatures is still probably one of the most complex, fully developed a-life simulations that exist to this day, even almost 20 years later. The sims are not even close to as complex, and they don't learn at all, but they were more appealing to a lot of people because they have human appearance, and more and more scripted goals, behaviors, and objects added by the developer that were familiar and made people identify with them more and want to give them the life they always wanted.. (or torture them, whichever they happen to feel like at the time...) "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
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 Manic Scribbler razander |
I see many people remembering Creatures, sometimes fondly, sometimes not, but nonetheless remembering. So the games have obviously made an impression on many players. I think one of the big reasons the series has been shelved and forgotten is that much of the engagement was separated from the game, and wasn't very accessible; if I'm not mistaken, the Genetics Kits originally had to be purchased. I don't think The Sims would've been nearly as successful if you could only build lots in a separate program that you had to buy. The Genetics Kits aren't as easy to pick up as the construction tools in The Sims, so clear documentation is extremely important to inviting players to explore this facet of the game. When were Lis Morris's tutorials on the C3 Genetics Kit published? 2004? Four years after the C3 Genetics Kit was released? I can't bring myself to believe vague conceptions of differences in taste were largely responsible for the games' unpopularity when there are concrete issues like this that hindered player engagement. I have a lot of hope (I mean "hope", not "blind faith" ) that Creatures Online will bring more players to the series. Though the reasoning behind releasing a music video parody when many fans were anxious about the game's fidelity is... questionable, it's clear to me that the animators love(d) their job. Wouldn't it be cool to see your norns actually panting instead of being only able to learn that a norn's breathing rate is increased by hotness by digging through the Genetics Kit? |
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