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 Dreamnorn   |
Hey, everyone! Upon looking back at some of the updates on Creatures Online and all of the awesome things that will come with it, I've noticed that there have been no updates on the realism of the world. Has there been any word of: - Day and night cycles - Changes in weather - Changes in seasons ...in the Creatures Online world? As much as I love the ever-sunny daytime Albia, I would be enthralled if Fishing Cactus decided to include visuals for these changes. Granted, I'm aware that all of these things are in the current games, but I would like to see it -- and the little clouds in C2 that sometimes rain and snow just don't do it for me in this department. So... thoughts?  |
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 Lodestar Doringo  |
There has been mention of day and night cycles, inspired by Animal Crossing apparently. Go search it in the CO forums! |
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 Sakura |
I'm glad to hear that at least day/night is confirmed. I'd love to see seasonal and weather as well! Lil' norns sheltering in cozy places from the rain or snow? Adorable. |
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Lodestar Doringo |
Sakura wrote: I never even thought of suggesting weather.  Good idea! |
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 Feddlefew |
I hope norns are affected by ambient temperatures in this game! |
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 Puddini |
Didn't they once hint at seasons? |
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 Code Monkey evolnemesis |
Yeah it was kind of lazy for them to leave them being affected by ambient temperature out of the c3/ds genome, and then just hint in the guide that it's a problem for you to try to solve if you want to mess with genetics. "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
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Puddini |
Quick! Someone change the oficial breeds genomes so they can be affected by ambient temperature! Prefferably edit the CFEs! |
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 KittyTikara |
If anyone wants to edit the temperature genes back into the CFE Norns, a good place to start would be to look at C2's Norns. If I remember correctly the Cannies are affected by temperature, and the default Norns might be as well. I'd offer to do them myself, but I'm more interested in finishing up some of my older projects first. Plus I hate messing with temperature genes. The Mobula Ray - My Creatures blog |
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Code Monkey evolnemesis |
So let's see... feeling thirst, feeling suffocation, properly working male reproductive systems, inhibin, lactate, ambient temperature, questions and situational words (why, stop, what, this, that, who, etc..), need for water from outside sources... all incomplete or totally missing from C3? unrealistic digestive metabolisms that seem like they weren't even tested or tweaked at all, missing brain tracts, lobes that don't store information correctly, ineffective fight or flight systems... TYPOS in the base genomes, that somehow made it into the 'updated' genomes, and then into the chichis and every single mall breed that were updates to those updated genomes... Energy reactions left in for convenience when C3 creatures really use ATP and not energy, like they switched gears in the middle of adapting parts of the C2 biochemistry to work in C3 then just stopped... it's like they left half the genome unfinished... and Oh yeah... a huge bug in DS that sticks creatures in a brain loop until they starve and was never fixed... Any more missing stuff? That's a lot of work... at least Vampess fixed some of it in CFE, but there's a lot left... Can't we get Sandra Linkletter to come out of seclusion and just finish the genome for us? I want a complete fully working C3/DS much more than C4 at this point. It seems like C3 could have been so much more. Now I know why a lot of people liked C2 more... I think I'm about ready to switch too, the creatures seem a lot more complete, even with supposedly less sophisticated brains (a more sophisticated C3 brain doesn't mean much when huge chunks of the brain and biochemistry are missing...). "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
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Code Monkey evolnemesis |
Yeah, all the games have a place in my heart, and I started with C3, but i never realized how much of it was left incomplete. I'd love to try and fix the genomes, but there is SO much left undone, including a lot of brain and game catalogue stuff that is just beyond my level... I never really played c1 and c2 before until recently when I got the GOG versions, but just looking at the differences... I mean I booted up C2, and my first 2 creatures, one of them slapped the other one, and he said 'why?' and my jaw dropped... then he said 'stop that!' and then hit her back, and she walked away in a huff after being hit once and went downstairs and then she was walking around looking at stuff going 'what dat?' 'what dis?' 'eem thirsty..' It's almost like C3 was a step down, even though their brains, genetics, and the game engine are capable of so much more. C3 norns will keep pushing someone and stand there for a long time while they are getting beaten up... and their speech is so much less sophisticated, they seem like morons to me now... what speech they have is mostly forced by game scripts and consists of simple 'me like you', 'me hungry', etc... the males can't even breed without kludges in the game scripts... and looking at how much of their genome is missing compared to C2, now I know why. I really wish I could get them up to that level of completeness... C3 creatures just fall asleep underwater and drown because they have no way to know consciously that they are drowning... that's kind of silly to me... even the chemical lists in the C3 manual reflect information that is not complete, like what the chemicals are supposed to do, and if they are bad or not, and many that it says are used are not even implemented. Alcohol damaging the liver, for example, adipose damaging the heart... There are so many neurons in their brains that give them all kinds of situational awareness which are never used at all... CAs that are not used, CAOS commands that are not even touched or hinted at in any of the game scripts, so much... It would really be a whole new game if all that stuff were completed and the C3 creatures really lived up to everything the C3 engine and their genetics are capable of. It does seem in C4 they did pay a lot of attention to the genome, the engine, and their capabilities though... According to them they added hundreds of new genes and a whole slew of new chemical reactions and stimuli (and from what I've seen of the game, it shows)... It's almost like Fishing Cactus really want to complete their game... With C3 it almost seems like Gameware didn't care anymore, and just did the minimum they possibly could. "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
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Puddini |
I liked DS because it was my first Creatures game, but I didn't know so much was missing! C2 seems more interesting now. I'll try it again if my computer gets fixed. |
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Code Monkey evolnemesis |
Yeah c3/ds was the first for me too... I only played c2 recently, or really looked in depth into the differences... I had no idea myself so much was missing, until I really started doing research into making genomes and how the brains work and stuff. I'd really love to be able to make the c3 creatures live up to everything the game engine and their genetics are really capable of, at least as much as the c2 creatures did, but it's a pretty scary amount of work. No wonder C4 (which was almost certainly built on the foundations from C3, but has even more sophistication, if only just because it's 3D) is taking them so long to finish, they pretty much had to rebuild most of the foundation before they could even add more stuff to it... "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
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 DrWhite |
I remember there being grumblings about the state of the C3 Norns at the time of release, but I didn't realise they were so sorely lacking. Has any work been done to address that over the years? I have little experience with C3 and DS, 1 and 2 always took up my time, but I do recall finding those Norns seemed a lot less... engaging, for lack of a better word. They just kind of wandered around and seemingly grabbed things at random and I assumed I was just not watching their behaviour closely enough. I wonder if anyone has managed to create a C3 breed that works anywhere near as it was intended. |
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 Manic Scribbler razander |
One of the C3/DS updates included "expressive" varieties that should facial expressions other than happiness when being say, beaten to death by grendels. Vampess released Creatures Full of Edits that tweaked the genomes and improved the brains of the official norn, grendel, and ettin breeds. They're still not entirely perfect though. Lactate remains in the body forever damaging the Muscle organ, the male reproductive system has some shortcuts, and creatures can have trouble getting out of an argument over liked and disliked creatures without a few tweaks to their genes. I get the sense that C3 was kinda rushed. Dragonflies in the Jungle biome will die out unless you place extra water plants or a Hardman chili pepper pot in the pond for them to climb up. |
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DrWhite |
Thanks for the links, I will check out CFE, I probably was tuned out of the community when they appeared. Too bad C3 Norns never realised their potential but it would be interesting to see what they turn out like with the tweaks that are out there. I got the feeling C3 was rushed as well, it just never felt truly coherent to me. I remember the first time I loaded it up and finding all these random things lying around for making machines and being given no clue in the game or its documentation as to what they were for or how to use them. A lot of guides I've seen subsequently follow a similar pattern of guiding your first Norn all around the ship, collecting certain resources and building Grendel-repellants and so on, all as standard procedure that is basically necessary to maintain a stable population, but none of these steps were ever hinted at in my copy. It's kind of like somebody coded a mini adventure game into it and then never told anyone, and you can't really get started properly without playing at least some of that game you didn't expect to be there. |
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Manic Scribbler razander |
To me also, that mechanic felt shoe-horned as a way to make the game more "adventurous". If you get Docking Station and create a Docked world (or just one with the docking station itself), you don't have to wrestle with maintaining the ship's bioenergy, so at least there's that. |
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Dreamnorn |
I love how my question became a giant discussion about the (in)completeness of the C3DS genome. ![[nlaugh]](/images/smilies/emot_laugh.gif "[nlaugh]") What an awesome thing to come back to.evolnemesis wrote: My first Creatures game was C1, and though they didn't seem to ask questions as much as in C2, they still did sometimes. In that regard, C1 is still a bizarre step up from the C3DS norns' ability to consider how and why their world works. In C2 especially, though, the canny norns and grendels and ettins were always curious, constantly wondering and asking questions even when it seems that there's no one around to answer. It made me look past the bugginess and elevate it to my favorite game in the series. One of the things I missed in the sequel games that was in C1 only, though, was the blank speech balloons. C1 norns didn't question as much, but sometimes they literally would look directly at you and give you a blank balloon, implying that they were rendered speechless by whatever just happened to them or whatever they're looking at. I found it incredibly endearing and very human, to see norns that sometimes were just at a loss for words. It always puzzled me why C3DS norns seemed a bit more robotic. I guess this incomplete genome is part of the answer. Now I know why they don't try to get out of those darn pools when it's obvious the little fuzzballs are drowning.  |
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Senior Wrangler Nutter |
Oh, the blank speech balloon in C1 was something else.  C1 norns had a slot in their vocabulary for the state of having high sex drive (euphemistically termed "friendly" in C3DS!) Norns do say this in C1, but (in a rather Victorian fashion) the game engine blanks it out. I don't know if there's any way round that, but I suspect it's hard-coded. |
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 Lollipop Lord C-Rex |
Can we bring the thread back on topic please? I myself would enjoy seeing seasons, and years similar to Creatures 2 implemented in Creatures Online. I always found it to be really interesting to see new plants and animals emerging in the summer. |
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