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 Jessi   |
I'm pretty excited about Creatures 4, though I am a little concerned about the microtransaction policy. I've found that playing a game with this type of payment often feels as though you're missing out, and that the costs for the transactions are often much too high. In the Wiki it says you can use cash to buy "golden eggs" which is a form of in-game currency. I'm a little worried that this game is going to take on a Farmville mentality, where people spend much-too-much to get an in-game advantage. Though it does say that ettins and grendles may be available at a later time. I wonder if they will be a free upgrade or if that would be more like an expansion that users can purchase. I'm also pretty curious about the collector's gift box. Perhaps I'm being too pessimistic? What are your guys' thoughts? |
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 mfb  |
Many microtransaction models I've seen have revolved around 'buying time' -- if you don't have the time to spend on x thing, you can buy a pass to skip through. I'm hoping Creatures 4 will be set up like that. Anyone else hoping the collectors' edition will be like the Creatures 2 collectors' edition? Shee Tea Shop |
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 Don |
I never tend to buy in-game items.. so it'll be a shame if they charge for much stuff, but a lot of games are going this way these days. Don AmberCreatures  |
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Don |
I never tend to buy in-game.. so it'll be a shame if they end up charging for items, but a lot of games are going this way these days. Personally I prefer to pay for the game and then expand it free, to avoid the costs mounting up. Don AmberCreatures |
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 Hawk |
Nor do I, Don. I hate how most things are about microtransactions. I mean, for crying out loud, you already bought the game. Why should you have to pay more? So far, I'm pretty disappointed with C4. |
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 AquaShee |
But... C4 is free? Microtransactions only get you some additional cosmetic stuff or speed up the acquisition of other stuff you could get by just playing a lot. And if you buy the paid version, you get the retail prices' worth of microtransactions. Anyways, a C4 based on the same economic model as the previous games would require a high investment, loads more time and possibly wouldn't do well enough on today's market. No company is willing to take that risk. So you either get no C4 at all and just keep playing with the current games until the community slowly fades away. Or you get a free C4 with microtransactions that you don't have to buy at all and you don't even have to play the game, and you can still keep playing the other games while the community gets loads of new and old members who will probably like to play the previous games as well. So whether you like C4 or not, you win. Unless you're dead set on being bitter about it. The Community Scribble: make (y)our own metaroom! |
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Jessi |
I'm not bitter about it, just concerned about how the transactions will be implemented. I have no problem if they are done tastefully, as I have had good experiences playing games with this type of payment option before. My concern is that it will be more like a Facebook game, where they advertise it as free, wait until the player has invested a lot of time into their game, and then start charging. People can be taken advantage of in this way, and as the game seems to be targeted towards younger children as well, I could see this being problematic. However, cosmetic upgrades or expansions can be a good way to earn money. I'm just hesitant about paying for in-game currency as it is something that you have to continue to pay for, instead of an in-game upgrade. I loved the Docking Station, which was free and could be played on its own, but players had the option to purchase Creatures 3 as well for a fuller experience. Of course there's no telling how it will be done until either we get the game or an official statement is released. I'm definitely willing to give it a chance, of course. I didn't mean to be negative, I just wanted to speculate how payment will work as well as express my concerns. I'm planning on getting the collector's box myself  |
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 Norngirl |
Just like Jessi said.. Also don't forget that what you bought you kept - You did keep C3 on a dics and you got the Clabs breeds downloads as exe files - that could be unpacked at any where and anytime - and also kept on any CD or storage for later use - and not being online either >: D It's not like you buyed the clabs breeds and they went directly installed into the game - without you having any backups *or be able to backup them on CD's or so...wich,in return remind me of this awesome screensaver/pet simulator called Anidragons - wich I was one of the victim to be misfortune enough to experience - they let you download it,then buy for real money stuff but what you bought went direct into the screensaver/game - if your'e pc crash - everything you bought was bye bye..still wonder if Imable to backup my anidragon program in general..hmm) so what I am saying is,things I don't like they call this a C4 is for it's being a typical onlline game that probably will leave you sit on a chair for ages to achieve goals and stuff - rather then enjoy it freely as you could in the older games... and for the buy-able stuff - I fear it will be just a buy this and dat for wasted real money - as it surely won't be things you can download as files and unpack... I think still they could do something like Spore - (they did mention it as a reference anyway at some point,so..) They could make C4 sell on CD's - but make it playable both offline and online (also like docking station) yet - they could make expassion packs - that also is buyable - but for real money - AND it's on CD...with that said... costumer get happy cos they buy something they Know they can keep and play with without thinking " Oh man, I buyed something that was fun for a while,til the company closed/server failure/must be online etc etc) and they would still cash in money with making lots of neat contents (as they plan to anyway),only diff is they sell what people can keep - How many times didn't we hear people now willing to buy clabs breeds,but isn't able to justy because the mall was down? I realy think thats the way it should be - that would be a true C4 - keeping true to the keep the game and freedom playing - not a pressure playing of achieve this goal and must level to that level etc etc..well thats the feeling I get now...sorry Fishing cactus T_T' I also have a feeling that the best items/stuff that you can buy will be for the "you need to buy this with real money currency" - while the other things that may not be so important/cool you be able to buy with the easy obtainable coins...just like in HappyPets..sigh *they have all the best things for FB coins dangit >_<..not to mention nearly everything is for FB cash..also some ,if not all of the easy obtainable money ingame is set on a high price - just to milk people with you want that - then come and get it by buy the fake money with the real money allready T_T' such waste!* Anyhow - Im still gonna consider this as a spinn-off game.. I don't feel like leveling and goals to unlock stuff is creature-ish,now is it? *NOT counting the power-ups that was in C2-C3..it's just not the same thing if you compare them with FB styled games,wich use levels/need real money currency and hours to limit you to obtain things ) My fear mostly over this game - as said, is that it will be another online game that will make you to a online zombie..not be able to get it off for doing other stuff ..not like DS that at least is not the same kind of online game,were you enjoy to just leave it for the night and see what happens next day or simply shut it down to so something else - I just don't wanna hope the new C4 will be one of the online adicctive games,such as being loged in everyday for a event - if you miss, you have to restart/or can still pay for a currency etc etc,know what I mean? I realy think that take away the fun,it feels like you are forced to be on all day just to unlock that item or just to have that thing... Ok,my rant is over.. And people please,no flame war over my rant okay? it's my openion, hopefuly I am just fearing it will be too much of FB or the mmorpg styled games... *swish - vanish in thin air* |
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Jessi |
No worries Norngirl, I have the same concerns after all. I don't think we need to worry about it being too much like an MMO though. From what I can tell from the Wiki it seems that you will be required to make an account to play it, but hopefully that will just be for authentification purposes and that it won't have the "daily grind" aspect to it. Most games these days that contain DLC will register the content to your account as well, so even if you are not able to access the files directly, you are usually able to re-download them. The unlocking levels in order to purchase more stuff does make it sound like a Facebook game though. Sometimes this can be fun, but my hope is that gaining levels won't be the main goal of the game. |
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Norngirl |
Yes thats it O.o' Hmm I see - well perhaps Im thinking too much of the account style of Spore, as I know you needed one if you wanted to go online (or play at all,if my memory serves me right,hmm) But if thats the way as you say it - hopefuly my download concern is at rest,for a while XD as for the mmorpg/FB part as I said - FB games is kinda like that nowdays too - they make it so people never leave the chair XD ah yes - same thing - I don't like it if you have to level up in a game that was never meant to be a rpg/quest like game from the start >_> |
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 Lollipop Lord C-Rex |
If Fishing Cactus do use micro-transactions, I hope that they will only include them as small addons, like with The Sims 3, where you can buy stuff such as new hair etc. |
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AquaShee |
Umm, Fishing Cactus already explained how microtransactions will work, most of the things you guys are worrying about have already been addressed. There will be coins and golden eggs. Coins are earned by playing, golden eggs are earned by special events ingame (such as levelling up or something) or by buying them with real money. Items in the shop can be bought with coins or golden eggs, but you can buy any item with just coins. So you don't really need golden eggs, ever. They're just worth more. Golden eggs can also be used to speed up certain things, such as hatchery machines and stuff. Once again, you don't *need* the golden eggs if you're just patient. So bottom line is: All the content in the game so far will be available for free, microtransactions will just speed things up. Anything you buy will be available to you even if your computer explodes in a thousand tiny pieces. It's all linked to your account, so anything you bought stays yours forever, or until the server dies, which means you wouldn't be able to play anymore anyways. Note: Any software you bought ever has never been yours, just like the content of a book isn't yours. Please stop complaining about stuff without actually having read and understood all the information that has already been published. You're all just creating false rumours. Other than that, I do agree that C4 will have a certain FB sense around it. But underneath that there will still be Creatures, and once you're past the first few 'levels' and unlocked most of the basic content I'm sure you'll barely notice the social networky aspect. The Community Scribble: make (y)our own metaroom! |
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 Jessica |
I'm still of the opinion that we don't know very much about C4 yet... Microtransactions have been mentioned a couple of times, but Fishing Cactus hasn't gone into a huge amount of detail, besides the Golden Egg feature. I know this has opened up the door for lots of discussion, since we don't have a very concrete description of how everything will work. I strongly dislike using real money to speed up anything, or to buy additional (unnecessary) items to improve upon a game. I rather enjoy using it right of the box, so to speak. I can't say I'm looking forward to microtransactions, but I don't feel it's right to criticize Creatures 4 just yet. As AquaShee explained, the official information has made it seem like these microtransactions will never be required. Jessi wrote: I really don't think this is something we need to worry about: Fishing Cactus doesn't strike me as a company looking to take advantage of people to make some extra money. They have been very involved with our community, and have been very responsive to comments on their blog. I don't necessarily think C4 is solely targeted towards younger children... The colors might be on the bright side and the concept art/gameplay we've seen so far might seem simple, yet they're in a difficult position to give us current players something we'll enjoy, while also trying to bring in new players. My position is still of cautious optimism! Of course, I respect the opinions of everyone here: Discussions always bring out a lot of different ideas! I just hope that we don't create insane expectations for C4... At the very least, I see it as opportunity to bring new players into the Creatures community. |
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 Ettina |
Also, keep in mind that Grandroids will be coming out eventually. If C4 is a big disappointment as many people seem to fear, we can rest easy that it's not the only Creatures sequel coming out. By the way, I don't care if anyone steals my ideas for their own work, as long as you don't try to stop me from making my own stuff. Many ideas I mention are things I don't have the time or skill to actually do. |
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 Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
I'm not sure how much more detail people are expecting to see, given that they've already explained how it will work. Do we really need an excruciatingly detailed blow-by-blow in order to be "sure" of how it is going to work? Won't the basics suffice? The game is free--the microtransactions essentially just help speed your progress. We know they aren't going to "bait" us into playing a game that requires money because they've already explained the system they'll use, so I really see no need for concern. If you're having a hard time finding information, I would recommend their blog. In particular, don't forget to read the replies they leave in the comments seciton. Some of their replies have additional information, or explain things in more detail.  |
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 Dinofan137 |
Personnally I'm actually not very worried about that aspects of the game. When FC speaks about the microtransactions it seems that they want to make a similar system as League of Legends or Team Fortress 2 ; there is payable content but this content can be obtained without paying. But there is a problem when they speak about microtransactions... They say that eveyrthing can be obtained without paying. They say that microtransactions can be usefull for getting stuff you usually get when you "Level up", when you "Get an achievement"... Levels and achievements ? In Creatures ? doh ! |
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Ettina |
Yeah, Creatures isn't exactly a 'levels and achievements' kind of game, powerups notwithstanding. Although what worries me most is the 'Master Shee'. He looks stupid, and I can just see him becoming another annoying character to pester the user like so many other games have. I sure hope there's a way to kill him if I don't like him. By the way, I don't care if anyone steals my ideas for their own work, as long as you don't try to stop me from making my own stuff. Many ideas I mention are things I don't have the time or skill to actually do. |
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AquaShee |
Levels might add something to the game, I think. Creatures 2 had a huge sense of achievement since you had to explore the world to get all the powerups. Getting a Norn to go anywhere was a hassle, so finally getting that elusive spinning coin thingy was a milestone! In C3, it was just a bother to drag your Norns from point A to point be and repeatedly tell them to get the powerup. Moving norns was too easy to make it feel like you earned it. With levels, we'll get some of that back. You'll be raising your Norns by hand until you have enough XP to finally be able to use the splicer or buy that fancy new toy or get to explore the next metaroom. It won't be as exciting as the C2 sense of exploration of course, but I don't think it'll be all bad. With some effort you should be able to unlock all features pretty soonish, and your level will become irrelevant, just a nice number to show off to others. The Community Scribble: make (y)our own metaroom! |
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Jessi |
That's a good point, AquaShee. I'm not too concerned about the levels; most games are moving in the leveling and achievement direction these days anyways. I like to feel as though I've earned something as well, which is one of the reasons that C3 felt too easy for me. For me, the fancy toy or machinery is a lot more enjoyable to use if I had to work may way up to acquiring it. Also, Creatures always felt as though it *should* have rewards for leveling. Even Creatures 1 had a score system, although it never did anything. It sounds like it could be similar to Viva Pinata. Though VP did get a little overwhelming with the "You've unlocked X!" messages, it mostly added to the experience of the game. The game styles are very different, though, so it will be interesting to see how it comes together. |
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andreadst |
That's an interesting discussion! The XP and Leveling in games is a very effective tool to make sure the player is rewarded on a regular basis. The tradeoff here being that it breaks a part of the "immersion" feel. It is important for designers to "control" and "distribute" the content with xp/levels as it makes for a more engaging experience (ie. "I know I still have stuff to unlock, that's cool!"  . This doesn't mean that a more "organic" approach isn't viable. It works very well in sandbox style games that demand a big commitment from the player to begin with (Minecraft works like that and is very immersive if you accept to discover it on your own). Still, a lot of players will probably leave because they feel they have no drive in their progression. More specifically about Creatures, I think the level of commitment of a player should be acknowledged by the game. If you breed fantastic Norns and put time and effort into that, in my opinion it's cool to get a reward (even a simple acknowledgment badge or whatever). This doesn't change the implicit achievement, it enforces it. my two cents |
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Ettina |
The thing I'm worried about is that leveling and achievements will pressure people into thinking there's a 'right' way to play Creatures, instead of it being the wide-open-sandbox that it's supposed to be. Though I guess if you took several distinct playstyles and made achievements for each, that would help. For example, maybe have an achievement for wolfling run which is 'run the game X hours with norns in it and no player input, and have at least a breeding pair alive at the end'. By the way, I don't care if anyone steals my ideas for their own work, as long as you don't try to stop me from making my own stuff. Many ideas I mention are things I don't have the time or skill to actually do. |
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AthenaTrixl |
I cannot imagine the buying process for C4 as being anything like Sims 3 in the sense that you had to buy the Sims game before playing. The profits for the Sims games relied on people actually purchasing that game as-is, as well as purchasing the many additional packs. The business model for games in general has changed massively since the old Creatures games were being sold. I believe it is the new business model which has resulted in the very nature of C4 being so different in terms of gameplay. It is pretty much because FC want to make money. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, it's just the way many games have become. Being as the game is essentially free to play unless you buy the pack in-store, I am guessing many (especially those who are new to Creatures), will likely enter into the game playing for free without any purchases made. However, the point of microtransactions from a business perspective, is that it can end up costing you much more than if you were to buy the game as is. I think the cost of playing C4 will actually be more than buying your average in-store game. I would assume that companies and business want to find ways to make the most out of their product, and so if it's more profitable for them to actually release a game for free and include microtransactions, over actually sell the games in stores, they will go for microtransactions. I'd say this new business model for games is what is leading to stores selling your average games, (such as the "GAME" here in the UK) stores going out of business. The perk is that a game is "free"; the catch is that you get immersed in the game, want to advance, and spend money in order to obtain them. FC absolutely will want to make good money for their hard work. Therefore I am guessing these microtransactions will possibly be any or all of these things: - Some items high in cost, or cheap but plentiful items, so it feels like you're not spending that much per purchase, but the costs of those microtransactions quickly mount up. AND / OR - It may be very hard to progress in-game without making these purchases. So I am guessing that perhaps almost straight from the out-set of playing C4, there will be many pretty things to buy. Food for thought: If C4 is free, and it's easy to progress through the game without needing to engage in any microtransactions whatsoever, where will FC get their profit from? |
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andreadst |
your reasoning is right AthenaTrixl. Also F2P games are designed as ongoing services today, and services require money to run. Players investing regularly in the game are thus funding and influencing the extended development. Anyway, they way we proceed is: 1) coming up with a compelling experience that is good independently from its business model. 2)thinking about how we can make the experience we designed work with the business model that is required from us. 3)balance everything so that it's fair and allows you to play freely but should you decide to invest in the game, the rewards are worthwhile. Of course this is very abstract, and as a player I have a tendency to disregard free to play games because they look cheap or they are unfair (ie. you pay to advance) or they can't hold my interest compared to traditional games. Lately though, free to play games are starting to become more attractive for traditional gamers. if you look at games like AirMech or Tribs Ascend you can find some realy cool games that are commercially "fair" to the user and made better by being free. The big downside of F2P at the moment is "what happens when the game goes offline for whatever reason". Right now I don't have an answer honestly. Maybe fan support will justify an offline version to our publisher...who knows? We hope we won't need to ask ourselves the question anytime soon |
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 Caves Dweller Rascii Administrator |
I think that most Creatures fans would be willing to pay up to $9.99 for an iPhone/iPad app. maybe we should make a poll- Rascii |
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 Malkin Manager |
Looking at one of the screenshots of the shop on the Bigben listing for C4, it looks like we'll be able to filter the shop so that we can choose not to view the Golden Egg content? My TCR Norns |
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