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General Forum Creature Abuse    Frogman      6/3/2011 I want to know your opinions on this topic. It's an interesting one to say the least. The way players reacted to Anti-Norn was pretty shocking I think. I mean I know it's bad to abuse creatures but it is it really worth taking a real human life over it? What are your views on this? I'll be very interested to see how the rest of the community feels about it.   Jacob   6/3/2011 the idea of people getting so angry over "abusing" computer files is pretty hilarious, and such people lack a firm grip on reality if they do, but, that just my opinion on it all. Not really active around these parts anymore.   Lollipop Lord C-Rex     6/3/2011 I have never really cared much about Creature Abuse to be honest, and I find some of the things on Tortured Norns as funny as heck! (especially some of the names AntiNorn gave the creatures)   HolyTomato   6/3/2011 I think it's kinda weird to overreact over Creature Abuse, okay,Norns are cute and it's not coo to abuse something cute,but it's virtual, it's not that you're kicking a puppy. Who or what is AntiNorn actually? O.o   Frogman   6/3/2011 He's a person who ran the site called tortured norns. He made norns like slave. I find him a clever person he sucessfully trolled the community and did it extremely sneakily. By downloading and rehabilitating Slave people basically tortured their norns for generations due to the Alchohol in Slaves geonome. They did that all completely unaware, blinded by their hate and rashness. It's all 0's and 1's but still goes to show, throw a poisoned chicken leg out there and the starving wolves will bite chunks out in seconds completely unaware of the damage they cause. Some of the reactions were just unreal. It makes me feel quite shocked at the way these people regarded pixels higher than human life. It also makes me laugh these people were trollbait. If they were on say youtube, deviantart etc, the trolls would bring up so much lulz from their intense and extreme reactions.   EmergencyTowel   6/3/2011 However you want to play the game. Then again, I'm the kind of person who doesn't care if they test nukes on bunnies as long as it helps mankind. In my nerd cave, nobody can hear you scream. Feed my pets: Shroomy and Glow!   Horstj   6/3/2011 Well the reactions to AntiNorn's Website are defnetly not the reactions you would expect from mature non-sociophats. But that isn't really the topic here: the topic is what do we think about creature abuse. The first important question is: "What exactly is creatures abuse?" Torturing or killing a creature for fun is surely abuse and defnetly abominable. But what about scientific experiments (I know very well that they can lead to death)? Or not keeping Norns apart from Grendels, is that already abuse?   Prodigal Sock Ghosthande     6/3/2011 Most scientific experiments are considered justifiable by the mainstream because they are intended to benefit mankind (using mice to study degenerate neural conditions, for instance). Whether they benefit man enough and are accurate enough to actually be justified is totally debatable, of course; and frankly, the ones that don't lead to death are often the scariest, eg. primates that spend 40 years being re-used for different tests. You also have to consider the question of how ethical it is to program an AI that can be abused in the first place; you could say that Steve Grand and Creatures Labs were responsible for the "suffering" of millions of Norns, because they chose to program those aspects into the game. But abusing an AI or virtual pet is pretty insignificant, since all you're really doing is changing a few variables, not harming an actual animal. As long as the people who do so realize that and aren't trying to get off on it, I don't see it as any kind of problem.   Malkin Manager     6/5/2011 I found an archive of the ICQ agent. My TCR Norns   Mousienorn   6/5/2011 Whats it do Malkin? Wait... Is it the agent antinorn made to torture Norns yet again? Nornz Rule! "I'm always watching you. " The Creatures Clinic The Norn dating Agency! Make sure to go to the   Vatrena   6/5/2011 I know my opinion is surely different from opinion of most people, but that's probably ok. I'm against abuse of every living being, even if it lives only inside computer like Norns do. I'm always trying to treat people, animals and Norns with much respect. I think it's less evil thing to abuse Norns than people and animals, but it's still not good and acceptable. Those little abused Norns like Slave make me cry. I'm a hardcore christian first, and a creature breeder second.   Mousienorn   6/9/2011 Mousienorn dislike creature abuse. You basicly described it for me Vatrena, It's not like your torturing a dog, " it's not that you're kicking a puppy." ~ HolyTomato but it's still out right crule... Reson being if you 'tourture' a norn you are thinking that it has feelings you can ruin and you believe it has a life you can end therefor you believe it lives and you should not... CAN NOT Hurt it. (I make no sense, no sense at all ) Nornz Rule! "I'm always watching you. " The Creatures Clinic The Norn dating Agency! Make sure to go to the   Vatrena   6/11/2011 Lol, I described it for you, cool. Edit: Anyways, I think it's okay to keep Norns and Grendels together, unless Grendels are very agressive. Myself I use test Norn for science experiments but I never let them die if something happens. I always make sure that they're healthy and I inject prostaglandin in case something goes wrong. I'm a hardcore christian first, and a creature breeder second.   toxic biohazard Freylaverse Moderator   6/18/2011 I am very much against creature abuse. Even though it's not like kicking a puppy, or killing a human, getting away with things like this, tells people "Hey! maybe I can get away with torturing a real animal" and they do that and usually don't get caught. It's these people who become MURDERERS!!! Science is a beautiful gift to humanity; We should not distort it.   Pyromaniac605   6/19/2011 To be honest I'm kind of on the fence with this subject. On one hand they are only data and if injuring them is how you find them fun, then that's your business. But on the other hand you could argue that Creatures are "alive", by definition life is "the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.". But I mostly think towards the "They're data, so who cares?" side. Albia Volcanis -Updated 23/2   Prodigal Sock Ghosthande     6/19/2011 Animal abuse has been linked to murder, but saying that abusing Creatures could lead to murder is like saying that shooting games make people become snipers that run around shooting others. The problem is the person, not what or how they play.   Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager   6/19/2011 Creatures may be alive, but they are certainly not sentient. Torturing them is the equivalent of setting an ant on fire with a magnifying glass. As for leading to murder, the person would have to have definite violent or sadistic tendencies to begin with, as Ghosthande says.

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