creatures caves welcome, guest
downloads   gallery   dev   community   creatchi   forum   mycaves
bookmarks | search | post new topic
Help Forum
Wasteland bug, ft. the scientific method   

United States  

  9/2/2020  1

I wanted to raise a world fulla geats (and metallophagus grendels, I guess) for fun, but I encounter runtime errors whenever two or more gaius (there's 4 in this world) get too close to each other. people have mentioned this in the past, but nobody has ever found a solution for it. I did some research to figure out what triggers the glitch and came to this conclusion: The wasteland glitch and this game crash are both triggered in the same way, and may therefore be the SAME bug that has a different effect depending on circumstances and/or operating system.

The glitch is triggered when a geat looks at another geat. As far as I know only one geat has to be looking at the other for this to occur. I performed 3 or 4 small tests that appear to confirm this:

This crash occurred off-screen, so i don't know the exact circumstances, but about 30 seconds before it happened i had noticed two of the gaius had met each other in the geat metaroom and, since this room is very barren and I hadn't added very many outside objects, they wound up looking at each other...

Looking at other forum posts i hypothesized that the crash was caused by three or more geats existing in the same room, so I froze them using amaikokonut's hotkeys and put them in the same room in the bottom floor of the norn meso. since they couldnt shift their gaze it did nothing. I unfroze them and took them into all the other metarooms to see if that caused the bug. when I put all four gaius into the same corridor of Random's Room, the game crashed.

Placed the gaius back in random's room again to see if the crash was caused simply by the geats existing or if it was some action they were doing. I put 3 of them in there and it crashed again.

at this point I was certain it was caused by them looking at each other, so my final test was to put two of them in the comms room and unfreeze them. Less than a second later the game crashed, and when it closed I noticed one of the gaius had turned to face the other one.

The "wasteland glitch" actually has multiple effects. the first one is that it will set all room types to 0, which was believed to be the only symptom. the second is that the game crashes due to a C runtime error. the third one is that nothing happens at all, which explains why Jessica was able to wolf with Gaius just fine. This further complicates developing a potential fix for the issue, if we EVER will...

Why'd I write this, you ask? err, awareness, I guess??? I would appreciate people with different operating systems hatching a few Gaius and testing this out for themselves. my computer runs 64-bit Windows 10.

Peppery One


  9/3/2020  1

Well, that is quite interesting. Who would've thought that the wasteland glitch and plain game crashes were so closely related and in fact different outcomes of the same situation.
Unfortunately I doubt that this will ever get fixed, as it's most likely an engine problem. Our only hopes in that regard are complete recreations like openc2e, which would probably not include it to begin with, or at least able to fix it.

I'm still curious as to what is causing this problem internally. And it is so specific too! Geats can look at other creatures, other creatures can look at geats, and geats can co-exist in the same world. However, never dare to let one geat lay eyes on another one! The outcome is unpredictable!
Seriously, this is some Pokémon red&blue levels of broken.

Another thing I am curious about: is it the actual geat being the problem or is it something being classified as geat that causes the problem? There is a CAOS command that lets you override the word that an object is perceived as. It is most prominently featured in the DS training dummy in order to mimic creature types.
Do those problems still occur if you were to make a geat dummy and let them have a look? What happens if you "nornify" geats with it, do they still glitch? And vice versa, do norns falsely accused of being geats trigger the same effects?
This way it might be narrowed down if it is a problem with the nature of geats themselves or if it has to do with the perception processes.

Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...

United States  

  9/3/2020  2

Ooh, good thinking. i'll try that in a bit
yeah, the bug is so easy to trigger and yet so SPECIFIC. Makes me wonder why creature labs even included this slot to begin with

ETA: Interesting results! In an empty test world I made the other day, they can freely interact with each other. in the geat world just telling one of them to "push something" makes the game implode. Could it be an injected agent, then...?

In the geat world, the following things happen:
"Something" dummy: Gaius pushed it when I asked it to, then the game crashed

"norn" geat: Gaius could interact with the "nornified" gaius freely, but changing it back to a geat made the game crash the next time it tried to

So it clearly has something to do with the geat classification... Interestingly the crash claims "failed to open map file", which further clarifies that it has something to do with the wasteland glitch. What mystifies me is that it works on certain worlds but not others! is it accidentally jumping to some other part of the code or something?


hack shack
script reservations
dev resources
active projects
dev forum
log in
lost pw
1 online
creatures caves is your #1 resource for the creatures artificial life game series: creatures, creatures 2, creatures 3, docking station, and the upcoming creatures family.

contact    help    privacy policy    terms & conditions    rules    donate    wiki