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United States  

  4/8/2017  1

Update on progress:

Changes to the map editor have reduced time taken to compute rooms from a room map image (using terranornia as a testing ground) have been reduced from ~3 minutes to < 4 seconds.

This is the current state of the CA map being calculated

The basic problem I'm having is shown by example: the air in the elevator shaft was missing in the prior build, in this build i got it to appear, and then the air at the top of the bottom level of the area disappeared.

Basically I'm just changing things and seeing what it changes to figure out a fix, at this point, which makes it very hard to focus when I'm not sure what to change.

I was also considering making it possible to use room maps to create the .cos files for C3/DS, before deciding that the systems are too different for this to be possible.

Regardless, after that I need to optimize the room map, which is in 2 parts: 1 a simple dynamic programming optimization problem (find the best fit for rooms which contain other rooms, with the goal of the average room having a width of 200 pixels.) I know exactly how to write this algorithm, but haven't gotten to it yet because... #2 make sure none of those optimal rooms intersect, I don't know how to tackle that problem. It's in the class of problems that are very easy for brains and very hard for computers, because a computer can sort of only look at one thing at a time... (hard to explain to non programmers).




This is a really interesting project you're putting together, Geat_Masta. I'd love to know more about it but it seems like the details are kind of scattered throughout this thread - do you have a more centralised source of information?

Unfortunately it's pretty late in my corner of the world now and I don't quite have time to read through this thread in it's entirety (I did get through about a third of the pages), so I hope you can forgive my laziness in simply asking questions in this post. If my questions have already been answered elsewhere just let me know and I'll keep reading for them ;)

1. I can see from your sig that you're inviting people to donate to support development, could you give me an idea of what these funds would go towards? Are you planning to buy particular hardware/software/assets? Is the money going to be shared with those currently supporting you in this thread, or does it go to you alone?

2. As a spiritual successor to Creatures there are naturally many similarities between your project and the Creatures series, but most people will judge a book by its cover first and foremost. As far as I can tell, a lot of what you are doing is visually very similar to the Creatures series (probably moreso C1 and C2 than C3/DS), which was discussed a little in your other thread concerning the challenges of IP acquisition. Lawyers may not be too sympathetic on using art assets for development, but I can understand your need to use them as placeholders. That said, I am a bit concerned that the new art being developed is still too similar to the Creatures style. I note that you've mentioned seeking advice from an IP lawyer; are you confident that what you are currently working on wouldn't be susceptible to any sort of legal action from the current IP owner of Creatures?

3. You've indicated that you'd like to sell this project as a stand-alone product at some point in the future. Personally I don't have a problem with people charging money for a project that they develop, but I would like to get a better understanding of who has the rights to what and how profits from this project would be distributed. For example, who owns the rights to the artwork currently being shared in this thread? If you own all of the rights, will the artists receive any payment/compensation? If the artists retain the rights, do you have any guarantee that they won't revoke permission for you to use their works in the future?

I don't mean to insinuate anything with these questions, but I know that when monetising third-party content has come up in the past questions like this have been asked, and I think that having clear and transparent positions on each of them will speak a lot to the long-term viability of your project :)


United States  

  4/17/2017  2


1. Currently I'm able to do this project because I was unable to find employment, the key reason being that it's not what you know, its who you know, and I've always been really bad at networking. So currently the money just goes to me, I'm planning to pay back the people helping me once I sell the game on steam. At that point there are 2 possibilities: 1 I'll be much more able to find employment due to having made a game, or 2 I'll be able to sell enough copies to start my own games studio.

2. The visual aspect is only due to using placeholders, the final product should be visually extremely dissimilar (hopefully). I really have no idea if I will get hit by legal action, I'll need to wrap the game in an LLC before selling it so I can't actually get hit; I've determined that there are no patents I need to worry about tho.

3. They would have to sign the rights over to me, I would pay them a certain percentage of sales up to a max of $25k (because if they were salaried employees people like bifrost would be worth about $50k a year to me, but I don't think a year's worth of work is going into this).




Thanks for the quick response Geat_Masta, much appreciated :D

United States  


A new solution for the CAs came to me in a dream, I tried implementing it even though it didn't make sense that it would result in a major improvement, and it's gone from being able to process 20 smells without visual lag to 2048 without visual lag. So all of the work I did this last month? waste of time. forget it ever happened.

I've decided kreatures will have 32 unique smells, still less than the 40 objects, but i need to keep in mind older computers.

So what's left is cameras and sounds for a MVP, then a ton of polish (e.g. particle effects don't support textures currently, things still fall through the ground sometimes, etc)

Prodigal Sock

United States  

 visit Ghosthande's website: Breeders Beware

After eyeballing different sizes myself, I'm going to reneg on what I said before and say that 256 px kreature height will probably look fine. I've also (slightly) decreased the width of the neck. Still working on and off on the body parts, but I haven't forgotten about the project and I do still intend to finish them. Experimenting with different ideas about the ears etc. At this point I don't really think separating the ears from the rest of the head would be too good an idea, though I am making everything on different layers "just in case".


United States  

  4/29/2017  1

Thanks, that's good to hear!

I've been trying to connect the creatures to the scripting language. The decision scripts i showed in the initial video were quickly hacked together, trying to make an actual implementation is proving rather difficult.

This could be because the genes for the brain were also quickly hacked together also, and isn't functioning properly. Maybe after designing a proper brain it will be fixed. But the best way I can explain it is that if a norn sees a stimulus, it takes some amount of time for that stimulus to propagate to the output decisions, and the shorter that time is, the more indistinct all the stimuli are.


United States  

 visit Lurhstaap's website: Addicted To CAOS
  5/10/2017  1

Geat_Masta wrote:

Brynn wrote:
I actually didn't find the animations that weird, though I would appreciate seeing more than just "take a step" and "swing right arm" animation before judging it.

Those are the only ones that exist, I have to manually enter in all the pose information because the old and new systems are so different, I'm trying to get it running on windows now so I can post a version where you can cycle through the poses and people can put them in for me while I program the CAs and stuff.

C-Rex wrote:
The idea of a Rayman Origins-style water also intrigues me - will Norns be able to float when they're in water now, or will they sink to the bottom as they do in the other games? I find the latter pretty unrealistic.

Uhhhh.. It depends how fat they are? Objects have a variable for how massive they are and how much volume they displace, and fluids have a variable for how dense they are, so things should float if those varaibles are right. But I don't know what they'll be set to for creatures, or how to make genetics affect it. But I've seen very skinny people that are able to sink to the bottom of a pool and walk around, because mostly people are boyant from fat, so genetics should affect it somehow. Something to be worked out.

I know I'm coming in hella late here, but I wanted to comment on this from personal experience. I used to be morbidly obese. I have lost a lot of weight in the last few years though, and one thing I've noticed is that where as a fat kid I remember floating in pool or sea water -effortlessly- if I chose to, when I swim now, I actually have to work to keep my head above water. I don't sink to the bottom like a stone, no, but I definitely don't exactly 'float' anymore either. If I don't fill my lungs completely and hold my breath, my head goes under. It's very disconcerting. But yeah, living things sink easier than one would imagine, especially if one has experience being floaty. XD

Conclude with killer catchphrase.
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage"


United States  


I'm just getting back into Creatures and I'm extremely excited to see the work that has been going into this remake!

I really hope legal issues will be able to be overcome smoothly and allow this project to reach full potential. This project succeeding would literally be "the dream".


United States  

  7/6/2017  1

Thanks! I've been working hard on it.

I don't update the thread as often as i should, b/c there hasn't been much visible progress lately:

replaced the scripting language (jewel->angelcode) to get rid of some bugs
rewrote the mapping system
objects now never fall through the collision geometry, (if you teleport an object inside a wall the game can crash as a result though, so that's no good!)
rewrote rendering backend


United States  

  7/7/2017  1

I've been playing with pigment systems for a few days, and I made
a program to simulate how the norns will look with different pigmentations. It also includes some failed ideas using euler angles and matrixes.

Thanks to Norngirl and Luurhstap for information about pigments and feedback on the application

  replies cannot be added because this thread has been locked.

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