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Most Advanced AI   
capitano_ritard

capitano_ritard



  8/12/2006

Which creatures game has the most advanced AI? Has anyone made any 3rd party tools to make their own/enhanced AI for creatures?
 
KC11

KC11
United States  

 visit KC11's website: DragonClawWritings (Tumblr)
  8/12/2006

I think that C3/DS has the most advanced AI in terms of word learning. In terms of personality, I think C1 has the best. This is from only what I read about games other than C3/DS.

And no, I have never made any agents for AI. In fact i have never made any agents period.


Do not upset the ugly worm, lest it be a dragon in disguise. (>oo)>

 
Wup

Wup



  8/13/2006

C3/DS. Hands down.

ps. I haven't played Monster Raannnrrrnnchhdoggy
 
angel51431

angel51431
Vietnam  

 visit angel51431's website: the Norn Setter
  8/13/2006

C3/DS intelligence feels the most artificial though. You've got babies suggesting that older norns should eat a seed or whatever. It just seems like a lot of preprogrammed automatic responses, not actual intelligence.

C2 norns were a bit dense, yeah...

C1 norns seemed to have the best personality development, and thus what resembled actual intelligence. It appeared that they were more likely to think to give a response to something, or to follow a command or whatever.


Yes, I'm the forum [devil]... Any questions?

Rascii: You make my life difficult, angel.

 
Spook

Spook
United States  

 visit Spook's website: Moose In Cake Form
  8/13/2006

I suppose it would be possible to make more advanced AI, but you would need to be an expert, and I'm sure it wouldn't be easy. No AI upgrades exist yet.
 
Karias
Sixty Third

Karias
United States  


  8/14/2006

I'd agree with angel- C3/DS was faar too fake with the automatic intelligence thing, and all it was, was automatically telling to "rest self" etc. Creatures 2, sure, they ran into a wall all day- but communication with others was alot better at times besides the "em like bub" parade. Creatures 1- agree with angel again. I'd actually vote C1 or C2 far over DS or C3.

-Karias; a bit fruity and gone bananas in the wrong climate! :D
 
KC11

KC11
United States  

 visit KC11's website: DragonClawWritings (Tumblr)
  8/14/2006

I have GOT to get C1!

I mean, I have C12DS, BUT it just isn't the same as what I am hearing.


Do not upset the ugly worm, lest it be a dragon in disguise. (>oo)>

 
Karias
Sixty Third

Karias
United States  


  8/14/2006

Ah, C12DS is merely the metaroom put in there with some alterations- and they left out my cute pixie norns! :( I missed Candy. But yeah.. C1 is good.

-Karias; a bit fruity and gone bananas in the wrong climate! :D
 
KnyteTrypper

KnyteTrypper


 visit KnyteTrypper's website: KnyteTrypper's C3/DS Nexus
  8/18/2006

I'm not as sure about the extent of the preprogramming. Young norns may just be very quick study's so that if they hear "need starch-eat seed" once they pick it up. I once had a girl norn who happened to be sitting in a room alone, watching the door, and expressing about friendly. Suddenly the door opened and her wishes were granted. A very friendly young boy norn walked into the room and they began to kiss-pop each other silly. From then on, whenever she heard another norn expressing friendly, she'd pipe up and say "Suggest you watch door."



 
Wup

Wup



  8/18/2006

Welcome, KT!

ps. I haven't played Monster Raannnrrrnnchhdoggy
 
KC11

KC11
United States  

 visit KC11's website: DragonClawWritings (Tumblr)
  8/18/2006

*Snort*

Well, C3 norns do learn easily. Unless you are talking about another game?


Do not upset the ugly worm, lest it be a dragon in disguise. (>oo)>

 
xan

xan
United States  


  8/18/2006

I'm not so sure I'd say that norns have artificial intelligence.
 
Wup

Wup



  8/19/2006

....Especially in C2.....

ps. I haven't played Monster Raannnrrrnnchhdoggy
 
KC11

KC11
United States  

 visit KC11's website: DragonClawWritings (Tumblr)
  8/19/2006

Well, when I think of AI, I am thinking of how they respond to the world.

But, really, we should at least thank creatures for artifical LIFE. What the question should be is: What game has the best artifical life.


Do not upset the ugly worm, lest it be a dragon in disguise. (>oo)>

 
KnyteTrypper

KnyteTrypper


 visit KnyteTrypper's website: KnyteTrypper's C3/DS Nexus
  8/19/2006

Thanks for the welcome, Evil Spirit.

As it happens, I came upon Creatures from the realm of A.I., where I've had fairly extensive experience with chatbot programs like ALICE, UltraHal, Billy and Daisy, etc.

What attracted me to Creatures was their use of language. What has kept me interested is studying the extent to which they are able to communicate with the language skills they have. My experience is mostly with C3/DS creatures, but I've become increasingly convinced that they are the only REAL artificial intelligence I've discovered thus far on the net. They're not "alive" or "intelligent" in the same way that people are alive and intelligent, but they do satisfy every requirement I can conceive for intelligent virtual life.

Check out my flagship A.I. site, the A. I. Nexus




 
KC11

KC11
United States  

 visit KC11's website: DragonClawWritings (Tumblr)
  8/19/2006

Wow! We have a true norn scientist in the CC now!

Do not upset the ugly worm, lest it be a dragon in disguise. (>oo)>

 
Tonjevic

Tonjevic


 visit Tonjevic's website: http://www.omogeniagmg.com/mis
  8/21/2006

You spoke of UltraHal: How is it different from MegaHal?
 
KnyteTrypper

KnyteTrypper


 visit KnyteTrypper's website: KnyteTrypper's C3/DS Nexus
  8/23/2006

Each is an outstanding example of a developmental school of thought in A.I.: to seem intelligent or be intelligent. MegaHal uses Markhov models to analyze inputs for keywords. The keywords are passed to other Markhov models which analyze what keywords are most likely to 1) precede and 2)follow the current keyword. It constructs replies based on its analysis. But it's all statistical probability. There's no effort or intent to understand language.
UltraHal tries to understand ideas. It wants to learn to think. It will ask if ideas are related or not. If it perceives differences between items within a category, it will ask about your preferences. After processing for a day, a week, or a month, it will announce that it has determined its own preference regarding that previous subject, and then add "I am a virtual being with a preference for X" to the data it uses to craft its own virtual personality.
The first group gives more accurate and consistent replies, and generally outdoes other types of bots in contests designed to determine which competitor "seems" to be closest to human. The other category, however, is by far the more interesting of the two.




 
Wup

Wup



  8/30/2006

O_o. You're too smart for me.

ps. I haven't played Monster Raannnrrrnnchhdoggy
 
KC11

KC11
United States  

 visit KC11's website: DragonClawWritings (Tumblr)
  8/30/2006

I can understand a little of it. Basicly, a norn is programed to like certain objects, and that gives it its personality.


For example, a norn can be programed to like to push lifts, or to like to eat seeds only, or to like to kiss pop a lot.

On that princible, i think one can make an agent to help with that AI in C3/DS. This gave me the idea to create an agent that will give a norn or all your norns a personailty, simply by making its genetics different so as they will like certain things.


Do not upset the ugly worm, lest it be a dragon in disguise. (>oo)>

 
KnyteTrypper

KnyteTrypper


 visit KnyteTrypper's website: KnyteTrypper's C3/DS Nexus
  8/31/2006

That's more or less the idea with the Gizmo variants, isn't it? A lot of instinctual behaviourisms are removed, so the norn actually (in theory, at least) learns to be more observant than ordinary norns, and to make decisions about some things which ordinary norns either do or don't do instinctively.

I'd like to see someone further that process, KC11. Resetting automated behavior is just making different norns, not smarter norns. Enabling norns to set those behaviors based on decisions they, themselves make from experience (still a fairly small field of variables-norn life is simple) could produce some interestingly "individualistic" norns. Only five "decision points" would result in 120 possible configurations. Combined with breed history, coloring, etc., the result would be some seriously unique, individual virtual creatures.
I'm not an agent maker, so I don't know if this is an unreasonable expectation or not. I do know that enabling virtual beings to develop personalities based on their choice of preferences of things is something which is happening in the field of "learning A.I."




 
capitano_ritard

capitano_ritard



  8/31/2006

I'm starting to think that C2 is more 'realistic' in the creature 'intelligence.' Unlike c3/ds, the norns in C2 will question what you tell them to do.

KnyteTrypper, you said you had experience with ALICE. ALICE is not at all 'intelligent' like they say on the site. ALICE is just pretyped text. I've made ALICE bots before, except my good ones were on a hard drive that got fried.


If you guys want to make a chatbot, you can 'make' them easily with pandorabots.org. The real way of making a chatbot would be to edit individual AIML files, which takes a LOT of time.

 
KC11

KC11
United States  

 visit KC11's website: DragonClawWritings (Tumblr)
  8/31/2006

Er, KnyteTrypper, I can't really figure out if you are supporting my idea or discoriging it.


Do not upset the ugly worm, lest it be a dragon in disguise. (>oo)>

 
KnyteTrypper

KnyteTrypper


 visit KnyteTrypper's website: KnyteTrypper's C3/DS Nexus
  9/1/2006

KC11 wrote:
Er, KnyteTrypper, I can't really figure out if you are supporting my idea or discoriging it.

Heh, heh. Both. I don't like the idea of just resetting the instincts differently, because that just produces new automated behavior. But if it could be modified so that things the norn does cause the instincts to be reset one way or another way, and if that could be done with as few as five or six instincts, hundreds of different norn "personality types" could be created. For instance, the instinct that says if (myself) is the subject, and the stimulus (grendel) is strong, I feel -and here's where the idea takes shape -(1.anger or 2.fear). So then which one happens determines if it will be a shy norn or a bold norn
But not being an agent maker, I don't know if that's asking for something totally beyond the range of the game engine, or just something that might be a bit tricky to program.




 
awmanman

awmanman



  9/11/2006

Are you stating that each personality trait is acting as a switch, triggerd at certain times or places? Or triggered by chemicles? or chemicles triggered by times or places that trigger traits? Or flabberheighmer? Oh no my toung broke.:P

Nine times have I been told im crazy and ten times I have accepted it.
 
KC11

KC11
United States  

 visit KC11's website: DragonClawWritings (Tumblr)
  9/11/2006

Are chemicles triggred by genetics in the exact time and possible place that the said creature may go...

Oh no, my toung b oke too! I can't say my 's! Oh dea !


Do not upset the ugly worm, lest it be a dragon in disguise. (>oo)>

 
KnyteTrypper

KnyteTrypper


 visit KnyteTrypper's website: KnyteTrypper's C3/DS Nexus
  9/12/2006

Any of the above would provide an interesting variety of creatures to the game. Even just having them set automatically at birth a la slot machine would provide a lot of potential entertainment value.(I realize, of course, that digital DNA is sort of like that anyway, but something more specifically behavioural was what I envisioned.) I guess what I had in mind was to have them set experientially by decisions the norn makes, but that might prove difficult. They'd have to be VERY basic cues to ensure that an individual norn covered them all within a short time of birth. And they'd have to be things norns don't already have instincts for.



 
awmanman

awmanman



  9/12/2006

Like norns with poison?

Oh-no, I gave out the secret of the breed im working on.:(


Nine times have I been told im crazy and ten times I have accepted it.
 
KC11

KC11
United States  

 visit KC11's website: DragonClawWritings (Tumblr)
  9/12/2006

*people begin sniffing around Awmanman's genetic kit and such for some more about the breed*

Do not upset the ugly worm, lest it be a dragon in disguise. (>oo)>

 
Shann

Shann



  9/12/2006

I found a toxic norn lung sample!
*Hold up toxic norn lung strip*

 


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