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Treehuggers are crippled!   
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  5/22/2012

I've been looking at a gene compare for the Treehuggers, and I am appalled by how thoroughly Cyberlife went out to cripple the Treehuggers.

Treehuggers cannot feel lonely - the receptor for loneliness is dormant. This is part of the reason why they go psycho all the time - hitting other norns reduces crowdedness directly.

The other reason is that coupled with this extra sensitivity to other norns - they cannot perceive how to get away from them.

They have no half-life for the Up, Down, Exit or Enter chemicals. The stimuli for pushing doors, lifts, buttons etc. are dormant - they have no sense of 'I've just done something' when they push a door. They also have dormant instincts for pushing a lift when they need to go up etc. - because Treehuggers never feel the need to go up... or down... or into a door... or out of a door.... they can only go left or right.

This is pretty darn disgraceful stuff, and it needs fixing!

/rant o:-)


My TCR Norns
 
Ghosthande
Prodigal Sock

Ghosthande
United States  

 visit Ghosthande's website: Breeders Beware
  5/22/2012

Lol, Treehuggers can go psycho? I've never seen this.


 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  5/22/2012

Hatch a small quantity of them and put them together. They'll learn that hitting each other is a great way to reduce their crowdedness. :)

My TCR Norns
 
KittyTikara

KittyTikara
United States  

 visit KittyTikara's website: The Mobula Ray
  5/22/2012

I fixeded them, sort of. They still don't like using elevators for whatever reason, but did use them when food was nearby. I didn't turn on loneliness though.

The Mobula Ray - My Creatures blog
 
ylukyun
Patient Pirate

ylukyun

Manager



  5/23/2012

That's pretty weird. I really don't see how not moving around fits in with their characteristics. Still I'm not sure Cyberlife even realized Treehuggers would go psycho from this. Their testing on C3/DS genomes doesn't seem that extensive.

I will mess around with the Treehugger CFE genome this weekend and see what comes of it.

 
Hebi

Hebi
France  


  5/23/2012

I don't see them as being any more crippled that any other official breed such as the hardman.

The treehuggers provide a good challenge for breeder and it is always interesting to see how they are going to evolve through random mutations.

Frankly, it is because of their bizarre genetics that I find threehuggers so appealing (same goes for the hardman, and I love to mix the two), they really are a different breed, not just cute norns unlike most official breeds.

Also, I have seen people working on the idea of Asperger Norns, Treehugger always made me think of some kind of autistic norns, and I mean norn, not human beings. I am definitely not saying that treehuggers mimic well the behaviours of autistic people, especially since each of them is different and an individual, but I think that they could correspond to some kind of nornish version of the disorder and it is interesting as well.

I do not like my norns to be perfect, I really enjoy the random mutations that makes them mentally different.


Ooooooooooweeeeeeeeeeoooooooooo
 
Yomegami
Sanely Insane

Yomegami
United States  
Manager


 visit Yomegami's website: The Realm
  5/23/2012

I can't say I've ever seen a Treehugger go psycho before - I've seen plenty try to climb the walls, but none of the ones I've raised get slap-happy at all.

I think CL was trying to go for the "natural norn" aspect when they disabled the navigation genes. Lifts and buttons are mechanical, therefore, treehuggers shouldn't be messing with them.


~ The Realm ~
D.L. Yomegami's Creatures Blog


 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  5/23/2012

I think that liftplay and doorplay, as we see it in the other norn breeds, is created with boredom stimuli and instincts for boredom and lifts/doors as well as 'activate lifts and doors when I need to go up/down or in/out'.

Giving treehuggers back the ability to understand that they can use doors and lifts when they need to go up/down or in/out won't result in the same kind of play - they'll still have an apparent antipathy to doors, buttons and lifts, as KittyTikara noted.

They can still be a 'natural', skittish, breed if they have the ability to use doors and lifts restored, and even if they have their loneliness woken up - the loneliness, in particular, makes it possible for norns to like and love each other when sex drive is not involved.

Treehuggers still experience portalling and wish to portal - not exactly 'natural', but perhaps a hangover from the Chichi base?


My TCR Norns
 
ArchDragon

ArchDragon



  5/24/2012

Well that's kind of heartbreaking. The Treehuggers are my favourite official breed and I've been using them in all sorts of testing runs. My favourite type of run is one where I try get get my Norns to migrate around the world. No wonder the poor Treehuggers fail so miserably at it :(
 
ylukyun
Patient Pirate

ylukyun

Manager



  5/27/2012

Improved CFE Treehuggers

Please leave feedback here or in the comments section. :)

 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  6/9/2012

The stress system also seems to be partially dormant in Treehuggers. I'm not exactly sure what this means, but it seems to be that they don't find it as urgent to eat as they do to avoid other creatures.

My TCR Norns
 
ArchDragon

ArchDragon



  6/13/2012

Only been playing with them for about half an hour, but I've already had them tell me they're lonely, and use both elevators and doors without prompting.
Admittedly they don't jump at the chance to use doors or elevators, but they've got plenty of food at present, so hopefully they'll move around a little more as the food supply diminishes.

Seems like a solid improvement so far.

 
Jacob

Jacob
United Kingdom  


  6/13/2012

That's genuinely brilliant.

Not really active around these parts anymore.
 
Hebi

Hebi
France  


  6/16/2012

I must say, while it is fun to cross them with other breed or alter a single norn with the genetic editor, I do still do not feel the need to replace their genome with some sort of "normalized treehugger" genome.

I do not think it is necessary and, frankly, it kind of ruin the idea behind the breed to use its appearance only and not its unique genetics.

The treehuggers are explicitely stated to have developped in a forest without lifts or doors, they aren't travellers because the only technology they used was the random teleporter.

If anything, we could easily imagine their metaroom to be a rainforest with some isolated alcoves which could only be populated by the norns who activated the telporters or portals.

And I really think that altering their need to socialize is a bit weird.

Please, note that this is my own point of view, but I don't think altering an entire breed is necessary or an improvement. I enjoy genetically engineering my own norns from time to time, but when I choose to play a certain breed, I find it better to see how it is going to evolve naturally.

And my last breeding experiment was especially good as I ended up randomly with Treehuggers who could eat manky and survive Heavy Metals.

Random mutations have this "cool" feeling that the temporary thrill of engineering your own norn doesn't to me (sure, it's fun : but the experiment is short lived and if you have nothing to improve with time, what else is left to do in your game?).


Ooooooooooweeeeeeeeeeoooooooooo
 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  6/16/2012

Most of the treehugger's unique genetics are retained in the alternative genomes. They are just a little more compatible with other norns now, and seem a little happier in themselves.

The original treehugger genome could not have lived in the treehouse homes of the treehugger norn story - they do not have the concept of 'up' or 'down' required for a treehouse!

If you look at the genome, it seems as if the decision to remove loneliness was a last-minute one - many of the stimuli still make reference to loneliness, so it's not really that strange to experiment with putting it back.

I once raised a treehugger by herself - I only minimally interacted with her, and she never knew anything of another norn. She was never lonely, nor particularly crowded, either. She was mostly content, and she died with only me and a couple of critters there. That she was happy spending her entire life alone is stranger to me than cracking open the game's genetics kit and clicking 'dormant' off.

It's not about making the Treehugger 'perfect' - it's like the CFE, about giving them a better start in life.

I'd like to see these heavy-metal surviving treehuggers of yours, that sounds like it must have taken a long time to breed into the population :) How did you test it?


My TCR Norns
 
Hebi

Hebi
France  


  7/4/2012

Honestly, it was a totally random mutation that popped up after 23 generations. I use the gene compare software sometimes to see how my population has changed and I saw something about heavy metals so I decided to inject my norn with the chemicals to test my hypothesis.

They are all dead now because I've decided to try a new experiment with a genetically modified treehugger and a normal treehugger.

Currently, they are generation 20 and have nothing to do with the first generation. The most impressive mutation they carry and that popped up randomly is that they reach youth after 29 to 30 minutes and never reach adolescence. Why? Because youth is now determined by their amino acid level. This is awesome.


Ooooooooooweeeeeeeeeeoooooooooo
 
Ettina

Ettina



  7/10/2012

"The most impressive mutation they carry and that popped up randomly is that they reach youth after 29 to 30 minutes and never reach adolescence. Why? Because youth is now determined by their amino acid level. This is awesome."

Many would disagree. Most people don't like norns that are immortal and capable of reproduction, because they overwhelm your world and eventually stop all progress through generations. (Max population of never-dying norns, too many eggs for any more to be conceived, and most will never hstch unless you start exporting.)

Personally, I use spontaneous development and fixation of immortal breeders as a definition of 'winning the game' for a wolfing run. One or two no, but if they take over the population, that's when I call it quits for my very long wolfling runs.


By the way, I don't care if anyone steals my ideas for their own work, as long as you don't try to stop me from making my own stuff. Many ideas I mention are things I don't have the time or skill to actually do.
 
Hebi

Hebi
France  


  7/12/2012

My norns aren't immortal, they just get young sooner, that's what so awesome about them. Anything else age and death related is normal.

Well, I guess it also depends on how you like to play, I'm very enthusiastic about most genetic mutations because I find it amazing to observe my slowly degrading population. :-D


Ooooooooooweeeeeeeeeeoooooooooo
 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  9/10/2012

I've been working on a CFE Treehugger modification along the same lines as the Improved CFE Treehuggers above (but from the plain CFE base) with some additions from the Gizmo genome, including the less-efficient digestion to promote the need to eat before they can grow to breeding age.

Due to their Treehugger skittishness, second generation norns + are prone to retreating and not snapping out of it until the 9 minute mark - laying down and dying. They seem to need the extra reserves of baby fat to combat their nerves.

Personally, I feel that this is a bug, rather than a feature - but I'd like some second opinions.

Please test me?


My TCR Norns
 
ylukyun
Patient Pirate

ylukyun

Manager



  9/11/2012

Yes it does seem like a bug (or a disease.) Can they be manually coaxed out of their retreat frenzy and persuaded to eat? Weird that it doesn't happen to first generation Norns. I'll test them out in the next few days.
 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  9/11/2012

It would happen to first generation norns, but the first generation is typically not too crowded. :)

My TCR Norns
 
Doringo
Lodestar

Doringo
United Kingdom  

 visit Doringo's website: My Blog
  10/4/2012

Are CFE Treehuggers like this also?
 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  10/4/2012

Like which?

My TCR Norns
 


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